Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Suplex 5 link Suspension

Morgans are the most characterful cars on the road , and they are easy to tinker with which makes them even better , no other car made holds its value like Mogs do either , I couldn't do without mine ! And mine doesn't leak !

Peter I agree, from my ride home yesterday I suspect it is set up a touch hard. I have had no time to look at it today but have spoken with Henry and he suggested I looked at the quantums and adjusted them softer if set up hard.

I have time alone at home tomorrow so shall have a play and see what results and report back.

With respect to it changing the character of the car, it certainly does not. It still feels like a Morgan. As you say Peter, if the rear end was replaced with independent floating half shafts and front end a modern setup it might feel rather different. There would still be issues due to chassis flex though which could cause osolation problems with a modern suspension design.

In my book it's horses for courses, my view on whether the 5 link is a worthwhile step or not is still on the fence. If I find a major improvement then maybe, then there is justifying the value add for bucks. We all have different pockets which affects our decisions. There is an aspect of the front Suplex which I do not like which I will discuss after my tinkering with Henry's car, it may be the rear set up is affecting its balance, I'm not sure as I have heard others report on it.

With respect to David's comments, I would expect a perfect setup for what was installed if you weighed each corner and ensured that front to rear Spring loads were balanced and optimised, and then adjusted damping front and rear so that it was set to the drivers desired feel. I know some trad setups have done this and reported good results. However this is getting into racing car setup territory, and I doubt many individuals or dealers would have the experience to do it properly. This begs the question as to when a solution is a simple bolt on or not. Also it implies or defines that every type of car will require setting up to optimise because of differences in weight and its distribution. If you think about it the setup will also be affected by the age of the car, my understanding is that later cars have stiffer chassis than earlier and this will have a direct impact as well. So all is not straight forward.

I would like to make it clear I am not a suspension expert, but having done various track days in several Marques of sports cars and hill climbed I think I know when a car feels right and balanced or not. I don't consider myself to be a particularly fast driver, although others have commented I can be, I do try and drive safely on the highway and try and think that there may be something around the corner I cannot see or expect. Also we all slow down as we grow older, including me.

To be honest a Morgan is a very dificult beast IMHO, on the surface it appears to be simple especially in the suspension department, but I think that is miss-leading, from my experience rebuilding and upgrading my +8 suspension, small changes can have a big impact for the better or for the worse. IMHO It is very hard to find the sweet spot with a Morgan, that is to say get a comfortable ride on rough or uneven roads, and at the same time have great handling and control. In some respects it is the fun of the Morgan it keeps you on your toes. This is true with most cars, but it is rather tricker with a Morgan. Make it handle well and it can become uncomfortable unless on a smooth road or track, make it comfortable and then performance handling and cornering capability are lost. Maybe it's the true Holy Grail of Morgan ownership!

To sum up I will try and give an honest appraisal, whether some like or not I cannot help. In my view the proof of the pudding is you try it yourself and as I said before for quite a few miles, not a trip around the block, and hopefully in a car that is set up well.

Sorry about the lengthy ramble but it helps my thoughts and maybe helps you understand where I am coming from.

Thank you Adrian. Don't worry about the length of the post, it is a subject of great interest for many of us.

For me luckily it's academic as I don't have the spare moolah, interesting none the less.

And yes these cars are quite different from car to car although I'd imagine none mog experienced probably think they are all the same car.

I'd still like to be able at some point be able to experience the new rear setups.

Pictures and report of this mornings tweaking and testing posted on Morgan Photo Gallery.

I've driven PJB's old 4/4 hot rod with all the suspension upgrades.

Set up by the master it was impressive. We went down one of his 'test drive' routes, a rutted and bumpy unclassified road quicker than if we were in a new range rover!!

All, noting I designed the SUPLEX 5L with support from SUPLEX and other suppliers, so I am an interested party.
I note http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/315909/Tweaking_Henry's_rear_end_(5_l

I won't add much (for a change!):-

The rear adjustable Quantum dampers: I set the damper curves and the range from as soft as even I would dare and hard enough for trackdays. I am glad Adrian found a softer damper setting to suit him, as the car had only really been driven two up since fitting and we initially set the dampers on the demo car mid way. The 5L coilover units have significant spring rate progression (goes from soft to firm in bump and with luggage) and good bump stop progression, so typically damping should be set to only get occasional full bump impacts.

Front dampers on the Williams 5L demo car are SUPLEX RS Bilsteins, that some do find a bit too soft. I am now working with Quantum to specify adjustable front dampers to match the rear Quantums. Also working with Bilstein to specify some nonadjustable monotubes for the rear to match the RS up front.

Generally. We had set the front RS Bilsteins on the soft side for good ride with no intended deterioration in handling (a bit subjective that I know), but then also relying on the spring rate stiffness progression from the little RS Rate Riser spring on the king pin to give the extra weight transfer to the outer front wheel to add to the turn-in response. Inevitably this will be a slightly delayed response compared with the traditional hard bump damping and high initial spring rate with a compressed rebound spring.

We have built in significant roll stiffness progression in the 5L, so yes indeed much less roll than a std car. Thus we get good single wheel compliance for ride then in roll the system stiffens up with the complex link arrangement we have incorporated. (Better than an antiroll bar that would be linear.)

One other great benefit the 5L gives is absolutely no axle tramp but without the unwanted spring rate increase that the Morgan anti-tramp bars on leaf springs inevitably give. The ability to now get grip out of fast bumpy corners on hard acceleration can really be appreciated with all the grunt the 3.7 so fitted can give.

Does this take away the character of a Morgan, not from the reactions we have had to so. That's all for now - PJB.

On the morgan arp4 they use spax adjustables dampers on the

new rear suspension .Do you know if it will handle like the

suplex 5l

Thanks

Thierry

The Morgan system is very different from the SUPLEX 5L in many respects. The SUPLEX 5L is far more sophisticated as it was designed from scratch to give better ride and handling, the ARP4 was derived from the ARV6 race car. Examples:-
The 5L uses adjustable monotube dampers with a separator piston to separate the nitrogen from the fluid so they will never fade, those on the Morgan system are more basic twin tube types I believe.
The angle of the lateral control rods is interesting; the SUPLEX 5L has a true Panhard rod going through horizontal, the Morgan system has a diagonal link, its performance is unknown.
The SUPLEX 5L has a designed-in progressive roll stiffness to match the progressive RS front, I do not know how progressive in roll the Morgan setup is and I doubt if it can match the Morgan front spring characteristic which are either regressive (gets softer) or linear.
Not heard that the ARP4 is on the road yet, is it?
I think we are all interested in how they compare on the road.
Regards PJB with links to SUPLEX as before.