Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) "Involved" in Crash

This is interesting........

From Avon & Somerset Constabulary website:

Section 42 Road Traffic Act 1988

Added by Freedom of Information Team on 21 April 2015 at 14:07
Question

1. Could you please tell me how many prosecutions have been brought by Avon and Somerset Police for offences under Section 42 Road Traffic Act 1988, for opening car doors so as to cause injure or endanger any person, in the Bristol area for each of the last five years?

2. How many of those prosecutions were successful?

Answer

Please see below for the total number of prosecutions brought under s42 Traffic Act 1998:

Year - Total Prosecutions/ Total Successful

2010 3 - 3
2011 4 - 3
2012 1 - 1
2013 0 - 0
2014 2 - 2

FOI reference 653/15.

From a Solicitor website - it seems that this relates mainly to opening a door as a cyclist passes by, so not the same thing at all.
Opening a Car Door

It is an offence to open a door of a motor vehicle or trailer on a road so as to cause injury or danger.

Sentences available include a fine of up to £1000.00, or a fixed penalty.

The offence consists of opening a car door so as to cause danger or injury to any person, If a child opened a door and a parent permitted the door to be opened then a parent could be held responsible for permitting the offence to have been permitted.

The charge has a wide definition. The Crown do not have to prove carelessness, nor that someone was struck or injured, only that the act caused danger.

We will provide objective practical advice and assistance, and understanding counsel.

Do not face this offence alone, contact us immediately.

By that broad definition, you could be fined £1000 every time you get out of your car on a busy road!
Every time you open a door with other people around, there is some element of danger.

This is what I meant when I asked how long does there have to be in time between opening/closing the door and the collision for there to be an offence on the part of the door opener.
And if a door had been open for ten seconds before someone struck it, in another scenario, how does that compare to opening the door immediately onto people?
It seems like the difference between a charging, and a blocking foul in basketball. Who established position first?

If you hear any more from this you really need witnesses. The man in the Lexus or CCTV.
The big thing in Bristol is the cycling lobby and I suspect most of the disclosure above is actual damage caused by cyclists or cars hitting an opening door.

Your situation is very different in my opinion.

Firstly sorry to hear that this has happened - it must be very stressful but at least nobody was hurt.

I am no expert but is inconceivable to me that you are to blame in anyway: the Old Woman has exercised poor judgement in pulling around the Lexus, but Ford Woman is at fault for failing to keep a safe distance behind Old Woman. Even if your actions caused Old Woman to perform an emergency stop, Ford Woman should still have been able to stop with out rear-ending her (as the actress said to the bishop ...)

I did find this on trafficaccidentadvice.co.uk:

"
Q: Who is most likely to be held responsible for a car colliding with an opened driver's door - legally parked on a town road?
The parked car or the moving car?

(A.C, 4 May 2009)


A: Who is at fault in this situation really depends on the circumstances, although it is generally assumed that the person who hit the door is at fault as it can be argued that they were driving without 'due care and attention' if they didn't see it in enough time to stop.

However, the onus also sits on the driver or passenger in the car to make sure that the area around their car is clear before they open any doors, whether it be to get out of the car or put shopping, or a child inside. Section 239 of the Highway Code states that you should ensure that you do not hit anyone when you open your car door and that you should check carefully for cyclists or other road users/pedestrians before you do so.



So if you open your car door without looking and a passing driver hits it, then it is likely to be you that will take the blame for the collision. However if you open your car door with no traffic around and another driver comes along and hits it, then you can argue that they were not driving with due care and attention because they didn't see the door open in time to stop. Drivers are expected to apply hazard perception techniques when they are driving and so should be on the lookout for dangerous scenarios, such as animals in the road, pedestrians and open car doors.

The difficulty comes with proving what happened. If you hit another driver's door, or you are the one who finds your vehicle has been hit, then the best thing you can do is try to find an independent witness who saw what happened. Without witnesses, it will be difficult to prove that the door wasn't opened onto the passing car, thus causing the collision.

Although not always possible, the best thing you can do to avoid your car door being hit by another car is to make sure that you get in and out of your car, and put things in and out of it from the off-roadside doors, rather than the side that opens out onto the road. Remember to look out for pedestrians though!"

I believe that it is largely irrelevant what you were doing at the time....the woman in the Ford has to drive in such a manner as to be able to stop, regardless of why she has to, in a safe manner.

In my limited experience the person at the rear has the responsibility to stop, no matter what the vehicle in front does, and regardless of what else is going on in the immediate area.

Your car, engine switched off and doors closed is technically parked....so a static hazard....nothing more.

The question for me is: Why did the old woman stop anyway?
But regardless of her reason for stopping, the Ford woman should have stopped without crashing into her.

I would sleep soundly....

Thanks.
I just timed myself. It took me 10 seconds to get out and briskly walk to the other side of my car, round the back.
So the old woman's emergency braking happened 10 seconds after I opened my door. Hardly cause and effect!
It was also 5 seconds for me to walk from the door (having closed it) to the far side back. So the impact occurred 5 seconds after the door was closed!

There is a world of difference between a criminal (Police) investigation, and an insurance investigation.

The burden of proof for the Police is "Beyond reasonable doubt", whereas the insurance is civil liabilities and "On the balance of probabilities"

The fact is that you were several seconds and paces away from your door at the time the collision occurred. The collision will have a point of impact, and the Police investigation will work backwards in time from there, so..

Did any of the drivers react to your door opening, and did that reaction result in that collision. Ignore anything else, including witness testimony. That comes later.

If you were three seconds away from impact, where was the car or cars three seconds before?

Every situation is subjective, so would a reasonable person given the facts, say that your door caused an adverse reaction?

Best evidence is camera, second best is independent testimony and finally driver testimony.

You're right to exchange details at the time, you have complied with the law if it's suggested you were a party involved. You are also right to contact your insurers, whether or not you intend to claim.

If you are interviewed under Police caution, my advice would be to go 'no comment' to any questions relating to your actions, and contact a solicitor.

From a civil perspective, there are no black & white's. Your insurer would argue you were possibly responsible to a degree and argue the percentage of that, but that isn't anything to do with you. All they require is your testimony.

If you're guilty, they will require you to sell your Morgan to me at a fraction of it's true value..

Correct

I assume you were not parked illegally?

The old rat bag may have committed an offence under section 170 of the Road Traffic Act - "The driver of the [mechanically propelled vehicle] must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle."

Why did she fail to provide this? Has she subsequently provided this to the Police?