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Joined: Oct 2011
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Unfortunately Morgan exploited a loophole in US law that allowed a 3 wheel car to be registered as a motorcycle. Some countries, such as Great Britain and Italy, have specific regulations for 3 wheeled vehicles and they are also covered under EU vehicle classification. These rules are now somewhat outdated and were never really intended to apply to vehicles such as the M3W that have car controls.
Since the dawn of motoring, so you cannot really accuse UK legislators of being quick off the mark. The preferential tax treatment of three wheelers led to them being a boom vehicle in the 10's and 20's with a tailing off starting in the 30's.

Originally Posted By Gambalunga
We therefore have a situation in Italy where a bike licence and helmet is required to drive one even though no bike riding skills have any relevance for the M3W. The answer is obviously specific regulations to cover this class of vehicle.
I've no idea if such is Italy's fault, but the situation was concreted by the third European directive on driving licences. However, there is a derogation available whereby as long as the driver is 21 or older (the absolute earliest you can get a full/unrestricted bike licence) and has a car licence, that will do. A country does need to activily adopt that derogation - so residents of Italy should be leaning on their Ministry of Transport (or whatever it is called) to adopt this. The UK has, and so has Sweden. Others may also, but I only know about these countries.

Originally Posted By Gambalunga
It seems that some states in the USA have realised that the M3W is really much more car than bike and I foresee a general clamp down on the category, unfortunately for US enthusiasts.

Australia seems to have seen the situation reasonably correctly and, despite some ugliness in the solutions adopted (not really the fault of the regulations), I think they have got it right. They seems to have accepted many compromises that would make Australian homologation impossible for a car and have approved the Australian spec M3W a minimalist car with a reduced safety spec by comparison to the 4 wheelers. In effect they have created a precedent for reverse trikes with car controls that could be followed by other manufacturers.

I hope, for the sake of our American cousins, that the legislators in the US are looking at framing specific rules for reverse trikes with car controls. If not I suspect it will become increasingly difficult to put such a vehicle on the road.
The most helpful definition in my eyes is to use, 'car bodied' and 'motorcycle bodied' when talking about trikes, and not to directly reference the controls.


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Originally Posted By PaulV
Originally Posted By KenShapiro
It's a motorcycle in the US and would have to be registered in Maryland as such. Maryland has motorcycle requirements as all states do. Things like lighting requirements, a horn, etc. One part of the regs that shot down the M3W was that BS about dual headlamps being no greater than 8" apart.

So cover up 1 headlamp?

Originally Posted By KenShapiro
There supposedly were other issues relative to "brakes, tires and glazing". Not sure what "glazing" referred to. Maryland sent a letter to MMC stipulating what needed doing to make it Maryland compliant. I assume MMC threw it out. The MVA person said MMC never responded.

Might be worth asking for a copy of the letter (from the State under Freedom of Information or somesuch).


The dealer is asking for that letter. Of course, the dealer was shot down by the Maryland MVA over two years ago, and has done nothing to date to address that. Nor did the deler tell me the car was illegal in Maryland. I'm seriously pissed and disappointed.


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I don't really know anything about American consumer law but I do know that it is pretty strong. Do you have any redress against the dealer over this?


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Martyn. Surely it is up to the manufacturers of "car bodied" reverse trikes to take this up with the EU (and for that matter the USA) regulation makers.

There are too many grey areas and a lack of uniformity in the current ruling if applied to vehicles like the M3W.

Personally whilst I don't like the moustache and the indicator light stems (solutions for both could have been designed better IMHO) I think the Australian regulators have set a pretty good precedent to follow.


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Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Martyn. Surely it is up to the manufacturers of "car bodied" reverse trikes to take this up with the EU (and for that matter the USA) regulation makers.

There are too many grey areas and a lack of uniformity in the current ruling if applied to vehicles like the M3W.

Personally whilst I don't like the moustache and the indicator light stems (solutions for both could have been designed better IMHO) I think the Australian regulators have set a pretty good precedent to follow.

You'd think so wouldn't you. But MMC did not seem unduly worried when the 3rd Directive was pointed out to them, shortly before implementation.

I do though think if your Transport Ministry is anything like ours, a concerted push from fellow Italian enthusiasts ought to get the derogation adopted. It's all there in the directive after all, so other than saying from date X and issuing a notice, not much actual work has to be done.

added
I don't think though you should be using the term, 'reverse trike'. While the type with a single front wheel are less stable, they do exist, and there could be (ok, a bit far fetched I know) a Reliant Regal in Italy.

Last edited by Martyn Culling; 24/11/15 11:33 PM. Reason: added a bit

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As the motorcycle riding population is aging, so are the legs, arms and back of the riders. The "trike" as we know it here in the US is typically one in front and two on the rear.

The trike market here is booooooming so big that I think within a couple more years trikes will probably make up about 20% of the adult market.

So here referring to a "reverse trike" is what we call the M3W's, Slingshot, Can Am Spyders etc. I know in the UK one front wheel three wheelers have been much more popular, but weren't they called just plain three wheelers? Trikes imply tricycles which brings to mind one front, two rear wheels.

I think the term reverse trike is here to stay, at least here in the US.


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Originally Posted By Gambalunga
I don't really know anything about American consumer law but I do know that it is pretty strong. Do you have any redress against the dealer over this?


Interested in getting things right primarily. Only paid a deposit so far.


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Originally Posted By Dan_Lockwood
As the motorcycle riding population is aging, so are the legs, arms and back of the riders. The "trike" as we know it here in the US is typically one in front and two on the rear.

The trike market here is booooooming so big that I think within a couple more years trikes will probably make up about 20% of the adult market.

So here referring to a "reverse trike" is what we call the M3W's, Slingshot, Can Am Spyders etc. I know in the UK one front wheel three wheelers have been much more popular, but weren't they called just plain three wheelers? Trikes imply tricycles which brings to mind one front, two rear wheels.

I think the term reverse trike is here to stay, at least here in the US.

If it helps anyone - the two front wheel, one rear format in the bicycle world is called a tadpole trike. And yes, I have one of those too.


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Ah yes, a tadpole. Two front flippers and a floppy tail.

That sounds like the M3W alright!


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Tadpole? Sounds like it should be more related to an AH Frogeye...


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