Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Simmonds Hood

There was an LM62 +8 at Cheltenham today with a black Simmonds hood, and it looked very good.

No in my case the MMC were quite happy to sell me a car without the hood.



Again, in my case the MMC would not give me the hood or the bits. I guess that I could have asked them to fit it, which would have involved them drilling 12 or so holes in the car, and then 24 hours later Steve Simmonds drilling then all out and fitting his blanking plates. I guess I could have been bloody minded and asked them to fit it but i did really did not want blanking plates on my brand new car

I would have have thought that for the sake of good customer relations MMC would at least give a token discount when a car is requested without a hood. It's obvious that there is a cost saving to them.

I wonder what the legal position is if a hood is included in the price of the car and they refuse to hand it over. Is there a disclaimer on the order document?

Mike,
This is a purely personal comment and in making it I have to declare that I've never had any problems at all with the factory on the few occasions I've dealt with them. Also, I haven't looked at the original order/ purchase documentation which came with my car but, here goes.

Essentially, I think there are legal and non -legal issues here.

Legally, the position might well turn on the exact terms of the order. If what has been ordered is a car FITTED with a hood, then that is what the factory must provide. If they don't want to provide a hood 'off the car' in terms of frames not fitted, holes not drilled etc, then there is every likelihood that they are entitled to refuse ( although this could itself be the subject of a counterclaim for a reduced price)

In the non -legal sense, while all of us will either have our own stories or have heard of others' experiences when the factory might have been a little more forthcoming, it is still a fact that the customer/factory realtionship is a heck of a lot more personal and useful than that which operates with the majority of other makes. Any kind of legal dispute which a customer does then take to litigation is not going to be helpful when/if that same customer wants information or help from Malvern at a future date. This might be 'unfair' but life often is!

I think what is intriguing is the mixed reaction different people seem to have had- in some cases, there's been a very cooperative approach; in others very much the opposite. To me this is the worrying thing. if this is the case, why such inconsistency from the same organisation-especially one which says it prides itself on good customer relations?

Cheers

I really just threw the legal comment in and I certainly wouldn't waste my time or money pursuing a case for something like this. However, the comments here should concern MMC if they really do value customer relations. Perhaps someone from MMC could explain their policy.

I accept, and it is a major consideration in my decision to buy a Morgan, that people value the relationship they have with the company, but if we pay for something we should receive it. How could it possibly inconvenience Morgan in any way to supply the hood and fittings without fitting them to the car? I'm just intrigued as to their reasoning.

<<it is still a fact that the customer/factory realtionship is a heck of a lot more personal and useful>>

Apologies we are going off topic now

Very sadly, I'm aware of many people who would dispute this "fact".

In my case I wasn't that bothered about not getting the hood at the time - I was too excited about the imminent arrival of my +8. It was only later that the "Take it or leave it, we can sell as many as we build" attitude began to rankle. Not helped by my car shedding pints of water 4 miles after I picked it up from the factory and breaking down after 5 miles. And reinforced by the "they all do that sir" response about an awful clunk I was getting from the rear wheels - and a number of other incidents

Some people at the factory were helpful (very), but the buying experience was not memorable compared to buying a TVR or Caterham. Both of whom gave me a bespoke experience.

Not anti MMC, I would buy another one but with my eyes open.

(but don't start me on "craftsmen built", I am in the process of replacing rusty mild steel self tappers driven through now rusty thin mild steel)

As indeed it is with Land Rovers - particularly those of the 'traditional' shape...

Cheers,

Mike, Brian,
I know we are off topic as Brian quite rightly points out but I agree wholeheartedly with what you say, not least about the way Caterham and others in the specialist market go about things. It is this contrast, I think, which makes me so fed up when we get accounts from people about how indifferently they feel they have been treated.

Customer loyalty is a two way thing and, as we all know, once damaged, it is very hard to get back. I don't think it would do the MMC any harm to reflect on this a little.

Prior to having my current Morgan, I ran, rebuilt and competed in several classic British sports cars, so I'm not blind to the foibles of a Morgan. I knew about these when I bought it and was/ am prepared to accept these because of other feaures which give me huge enjoyment

I just don't think that this is an excuse for what can be at times pretty poor customer relations. As I said in my previous post, I've always been lucky in my dealings with the factory- perhaps I just got to talk to someone who was genuinely helpful- but we shouldn't have to depend on luck.

Cheers

PS I'm also prepared to accept the description ' traditionally built' but 'craftsman built'- I remain to be convinced

You are jesting aren't you?

If MMC, or any other company in whatever industry, 'explains their policy' in writing they will err on the 'safe' side and of course be forced to issue a 'risk assesment report immediately' (you know what I mean). If you go down this path you pander to the Nanny State.

This would spell, to me of course, the end of a great deal of what a Morgan, and the Morgan experience is about. Suffice to say I have been around the Rolls Royce, Ferrari and Bugatti factory's as well as of course the Morgan factory. The tangible, characterful, 'living' experience of the MMC far outweighs all the advances, technically and marketing wise, that the clinical anodine atmosphere the others have.

Sometimes you can get a bit of personal variation, sometimes you cant. If you start asking the factory for an 'official response' you begin the slippery slope. The answer will be a big fat NO for everybody, and you know why.

Please lets enjoy the car, the factory, the history and the people around it for what it is, and what it is not. It has many many more positives than negatives.

Sorry for the rant, I am not sure how clear and erudite my outpourings are but I am so sensitive that we do not lose any more 'reality' to the sanitised, cling-film wrapped version of life that now surrounds us.

Andy

PS I have no problem with change, improvements, advanced technology and of course real Health and Safety. However, insisting that someone provides a roofless car at a discount and demanding their 'stance' on this is not any of the above IMHO.

PPS try asking Ferrari for a 430 Spider without a roof, never mind a discount.

PPPS I have had nothing but great personal service from the factory personnell, though I acknowledge it cant always be like this for everyone all of the time.

I don't jest when it comes to my hard earned money.

Morgan is a car manufacturer. I am a potential customer.

They will take well in excess of £40,000 from me for a car priced with a standard hood. I will ask them to provide the car without fitting the hood. They will not, as far as I am aware, incur any cost, will not have to modify the car or be inconvenienced in any way as a result of my request.

So the question is, and all I did was pose the question; why would they not give the customers who have posted here on this subject the hood and fittings they clearly paid for?

I am attracted to all the things that you mentioned about the Morgan experience but that doesn't exempt them from treating customers with fairness and respect. I acknowledge that they probably do that in the vast majority of cases but any situation where a customer feels they have not had that should be a cause for concern for them.

Regards

Mike