Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Brussels

Absolutely agree. Despair is by far the worst response. We should stick to our values and they are those of equality, fairness and freedom - liberal if you like - but basically just extending democratic principles to all. Theses principles cannot be defended by abandoning them. At the same time, democracies' freedoms should not be extended to those who would destroy them. Trump, go home.

Now can we get back to saving the Ash tree..

That's what they enjoy. shoot them in the genitals and leave them suffer for the rest of their lives.

It's all not so easy...
how to defend the values of liberal western live style without restricting freedom of ourselves. How to fight an enemy if he is not a defined group as a physical target i.e. in another country but perhaps a block away. How to differentiate between a wise defender of our civilisation and a Donald Trump (or similar persons and movements in Europe). How to understand which actions and thoughts are dangerous appeasement, perhaps sold as PC, and when, on the other hand should a neccessary dialog start. Where is the threshold of tolerance and when starts the limit of consessions. How strong are our (if I say our, I mean yours and our) common western values, how deep are they internalized to withstand a middle aged dull religious invasion - especially re our young generation. Do they know enough for what to fight against an insidiuos invasion which is planned by subjects who know our weak points.

The world will change and I guess that all this fanatic primitive and brainwashed Islamic aggression will be the biggest touchstone for the western civilisation since centuries.

I'm afraid that in my country PC, I mean the bloody stupid kind of PC, has had the power for too long time now. So long that they now are wondering why the dull right is arising. It is arising simply because the mainstream in government and media wanted to ignore critical developments. It is so weird that now some of the Green politicians "defend" the right of muslim females to get supressed. Or another excample, In my schooldays in the seventies but also until only a few years back, one among other big guilt of Germany - and the try to understand it - and to live with it was the holocaust. And it is right so, we should never forget it even if the young generation is farer away. But what happens now: Recently you hear not much about the Jews in Germany in the media. Why? Because our Mrs. Merkel wants millions of islamic refugees coming to Germany. In my view she wants to demonstrate how "good" the Germans can be... And what is the result? The import of multi hundred thousend Anti-semites. And this reality is not part of our media.

Back to Brussels, I hope they will have success. Brussels also could be a good example of European wide solidarity in terms of new and better teamwork on a level of intelligence services and police power.

In Australia we had an issue with what was commonly termed "One Punch Injuries" This was turned around toa certain degree by changing this to be labelled "Coward Attacks" and it seemed to have some effect. maybe we can stop refering to these cowards as "Muslim Terrorists " and call them by their real type of ":Murdering Cowards" this may help the real muslims to come on our side and let the world know what we think of the bombing scum.

Absolutely, and we should stop calling them ISIS or IS. They aren't a state, they don't represent Islam. Call them Daesh.

We also need to not permit the terrorists to divide the West from Islam. This is what they want, they want hate and war and division. We must help build the gap between Daesh and everyone else.

I am an atheist, I have no religious beliefs whatsoever. But I believe in freedom, and that must mean freedom to follow a religion if that is what is wanted. Muslims have as much right to that freedom as christians and jews, hindus and atheists.

As for the terrorists, there's a quote from an American General I rather liked, which went something like. "It is not for us to judge the terrorists, that's between them and Allah. All we can do is to expedite their meeting".

Well put Heinz.

Tim, I think Dave Allen's sign off at the end of each program was always spot on "May your god go with you"...

I agree with you on this.

Unfortunately what we are facing is not just a religious divide but a cultural divide that is being driven only in part by the extremists. I'll give you a few examples.

Up until the mid '80s in Sydney you never saw women wearing the Hijab, at the most older women wore a simple scarf. Now the influx of migrants the pressure is on all Muslim women to wear at least the Hijab. There was a gang of Muslim boys that were raping girls, When they eventually got caught their mothers were the first to offer excuses (the girls were little prostitutes) and spring to their defense.

At the motorcycle dealership we had a Moroccan women, married to an Italian who has converted to Islam, cleaning the shop. Only 10 years ago she used to dress, modestly, western style. As more Muslim women came to the town she was avoided by the other women until she started dressing in their style. In effect she had Sharia law forced upon her.

We have a German friend who has worked internationally and lives in what used to be a well thought of area of one of the large German cities. The area now has a Muslim majority and she now feels uncomfortable to go out on the street alone in her own city. To a degree she is becoming afraid of living there.

There's no one solution. I don't really like using war analogies as I believe that this current situation should be identified as political violence rather than the religious war the jihadists seek. However, World War 2 was won across countless fronts and as the result of countless battles, some of them large, some very small - but they all counted. So, I'll tell you one thing that we can all do. Talk to Muslims. Just about normal things - a simple 'good morning' will do for a start. Living in a town the press often consider an axis of jihad I come into contact with Muslims on a daily basis and from chats I have they do feel very much under threat and that white people fear, ignore and avoid them.

And as for accusations of there being "too much political correctness towards Muslims" most of this is informed by made-up "Muslim Myths" e.g. Muslims want Christmas banned; or another one I heard the other day " a major chocolate company is taking the word 'easter' off their chocolate eggs as it offends Muslims" - seriously this myth did the rounds and people were horrified that this obvious symbol of Christianity, the easter egg(!), was being effectively banned in this way.

Rant over.

What is happening has little to do with the Muslim faith. It is about a narrow intolerant ideology that is in itself at odds with the Quran and mainstream Muslim faith. The ideology we are seeing is an extreme version of what is practiced and promulgated by the Saudis - Wahhabism. These extremists slaughter and maim all who oppose them regardless of faith.

I agree with you to keep the contact in daily life, and I also know that a lot of Muslims feel very uncomfortable.
But regarding the PC, your excample, the easter egg...currently it seems to be an obviousness. The issue with PC is, that i.e. christian symbols like the egg, could disappear... not because it will be banned by Muslims, it rather could disappear because PC people "think" it could hurt islamic minds.
I travel often to Munich. At the airport there was all years long a christmas market, since this year it is named a "winter market".