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I wrote this morning an email to Quaife about our bevel boxes.
In minutes I got an answer back.
I paste this emails below for information to all.
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Dear Quaife engineering,


After studying your website I could not find an answer on my question so I’m writing this email in the hope to get some help from you.

We’re a couple living in Switzerland and both owning a Morgan 3 wheeler.
We bought the cars beginning 2013 and did with them 13.000 and 15.000 km.
They are very nice to drive but ………………. the bevel box is ruining a big part of the pleasure.

On both cars this bevel boxes are screaming like a pig in a slaughterhouse.
On few moments with certain loads you don’t hear it but most of the time this noise drives us crazy (not only us, but also our dog).
I try all kind of oils to make it better but all with little or no effect.
I try to put lesser tention on the drive belt but also no effect.

When I was at the Morgan factory last year I asked them about our problem
The answer what we got was: We needed to change the bevel boxes till we get one that didn’t scream.
To my opinion is this not the right solution.
Can you help us to find the right solution ?

My question is :

Can you upgrade our bevel boxes to a level that they don’t scream ? Like blue printing with minimum tolerances ?
Or can you build for us higher quality bevel boxes that don’t scream ?

As I’m being on the Morgan Three wheeler forum on internet I know that are many other owners having the same problems.
I know that many of them also wanted to have a solution for this incredible noise.
So even a small production line with better quality bevel boxes would be doable.
Yes I know this all can be an expensive upgrade but for us it will be really worth every penny.

You would do us a great pleasure with helping to sort this problem.


Looking forward to your answer and best regards

Laurens & Rineke Vos

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Hello,

Thank you very much for your enquiry;

The Morgan 3 wheelers look like a lot of fun the road and views look fantastic I am very Jealous!

Regarding the bevel boxes you really need to go back and talk with Morgan regarding the noise as we manufacture these to their design and specification.

If you have any further questions or I can be of any assistance in the future please don't hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards
Dave King
Technical Sales Supervisor

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Dear Dave,

Thank you so much for you’re very quick reply !

To go back to Morgan for this problem don’t bring a solution for it.
I did this before and their answer was to change the bevel box as many times till we found one that would make less noise.
How many times we need to swap this bevel box and how much time goes in it to send this bevel boxes up and down ?

That Morgan asked you to manufacture the bevel boxes to their design and specifications (with the outcome what we have now) makes also that the name Quaife engineering is getting a bad reputation due to this.
And when I read your website it seems to me that Quaife wants to be leader in this kind of business.

To my opinion only the manufacturer of the box can find a good solution for this screaming problem.

We’re not claiming our boxes with you for guaranty or something like that !
We’re only asking if you can rebuild our bevel boxes to a standard that is normal nowadays.

That we need to pay for this work, we’re aware of that.
If people willing to pay € 50.000,= for a toy like a M3W, they also want to spend money on a noiseless bevelbox.

We would be very happy if you could give assistance to find a solution for this problem.

Best regards

Laurens Vos

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Hello,

Thank you very much for your reply. As my colleague Dave has already said, we manufacture these bevel drive boxes for Morgan Motor Company Manufacturing LTD and as such we cannot make any comment on them other than to refer you back to the official Morgan channels. In our extensive experience in the design and manufacture of other similar products, it is rarely our findings that a single bevel pair would cause the problems you describe. The fitting of the drive unit to the vehicle, the method in which it couples to the rest of the drivetrain, the tension, condition and alignment of the drive belt, the oil used, the operating temperature of the drive unit and other NVH contributors are all factors that should be considered when determining the source of a vibration or noise.
I have forwarded your emails to my contact at MMC who, I trust, will in turn ask the relevant party there to address your concern.

Kind regards,
Mark Catterall
Commercial Manager

What an interesting reply. That's the first time that it's been suggested that the method of installation may affect the noise coming from the bevel box.

now I wonder Morgan's answer and time of reaction.
they usually don't reply my emails but after several reminders.

Interesting.
I emailed Quaifs technical sales a couple of days ago regarding oil types they would recommend in the box , my interest being would they recommend Mineral or Synthetic - the starting point being the recent thread about bevel box oil leaks.
They came back with reply 1 :

Hello Graham,

Thank you very much for your enquiry;
You would need to speak to Morgan about the oil they recommend for the bevel boxes. We simply manufacture these parts to their specification.
I would imagine that they would suggest a 75W90 oil, as most of our other transmission parts use, but it would be worth seeking Morgan’s advice on this.

If you have any further questions or I can be of any assistance in the future, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Ben Ashton
Technical Sales
DDI: 01732 749525

After a further prod , reply 2 :

Hello Graham,

Our other transmissions use a fully synthetic oil.

Kind regards

Ben Ashton
Technical Sales

Implying synthetic is the way to go.

I'm sorry but this sounds more like the drive belt is eating the rear sprocket! If it is that high pitched and it sounds like a drill is trying to go through your ear drum, that is where I would look first. The sound will carry through the seat belt access which is why the ears take a beating. It, too, will come and go depending on the load.

Your accumulated kilometers is a big tell as well. Check for black powder covering everything back there as well as slip a phone underneath and photograph the sprocket where the belt is off of it. If the teeth are noticeably eaten and deformed then that is your culprit. The black powder is oxidized aluminum off of the sprocket. Morgan is now making them out of steel which works very nice. I have the Super Max overlay which also works.

I have a 2012 bevel box and it whines and I notice it as it is attached to the frame right where your hip sits. The addition of Red Line oil makes it behave. I have been changing it out at every oil change.

I hope this helps. I went through three sprockets and the noise on all three change outs was amazing! Bevel box can't even reach those levels. If it does then look back along the road for bits and pieces of it as it self destructs!

quite honestly its not surprising as you arent the first person to reach out to Quaife and post about it on here.

Quaife has nothing to gain from helping one consumer vs a corporation which is paying them massive bucks for a product. Part of being a supplier generally there is a contractual agreement for exclusivity.

You would be MUCH better served if you feel Morgan isnt creating an acceptable response to find a separate company which creates bevel boxes and work with them.

I've been on this forum for some time now and I've read all the complaints etc. I've watched more videos than I can remember with the BB whine clearly audible in the videos.

I was also one of the early on people to recommend Redline Shockproof rearend lube. From what I've read many have found the Redline Shockproof to be of "some" help.

Yes, mounting can be an issue as it can cause harmonics throughout the frame and cause many weird annoying sounds. MMC has the new rubber isolated mounting system, so they know this as well. Not that the upgrade to the isolation mounting makes much difference, they are trying to address it in some way. At worst, a confirmation that they know it's a problem.

I have many years background in the automotive industry, a service manager for a Chevy/Pontiac dealership for over 15 years back in a previous life.

The noise I hear is not unlike what a standard hypoid type ring and pinion gear has with a poorly adjusted pinion gear. Too much clearance, too little clearance or poor tooth pitch alignment. Any of these can cause a whine at different times within the torque/un-torque cycle of the throttle.

The fact that MMC says they swap them out until they find a "quiet" one to use, indicates to me that the BB is poorly setup from Quaife. I cannot believe that MMC would spec backlash, gear engagement etc to the manufacturer of the BB. MMC's need for specifications would be the input shaft mounting for the driveshaft, attachment to the frame and output shaft for rear drive belt pulley. Again I find it very unlikely that MMC would spec anything inside the BB.

The poor internal following of setup specs within the BB is clearly on Quaife, not in my opinion MMC.

This is why some of you have no noise, some noise and some cannot drive without it annoying the piss out of them.

Again in my opinion, MMC has to step up to Quaife and require normal setup standards of the internal parts. This is not new 21st century technology, but proven engineering practices for over 100 years.

Both companies should be held accountable. MMC has the clout to demand perfection.

Off my soap box now.

Same brush off I received when I contacted them!!!
Mabe a fair point - after all MMC are Quaife customers - not M3W owners!

So this whine isn't sorted out with current M3Ws coming of the line now?

Some good points made by Dan above.

Whilst only having experience with a Moto Guzzi final drive bevel box, I found it relatively easy to shim up. Being the UK parts distributor and having the full range of shims in stock helped of course

I started with a new crownwheel and pinion which were always factory supplied as a matched pair, in this case a higher geared set from a V7 Sport. Pinion tooth engagement was adjusted first with shims to ensure its teeth spanned the full depth of those on the crownwheel. Engineers blue was then applied to the pinion teeth and the box assembled complete with gaskets, and various crownwheel shims tried until a centrally placed contact patch was found on the latters teeth following turning of the pinion shaft by hand.

I see no reason why the crownwheel and pinion engagement of the Quaife box couldn't be checked in a similar manner, although I accept that access to the full range of shims may be an issue.