Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Goodby Martin Mcguinness

I agree with several of the comments but see value when all of the old guard are taken out and a fresh brush is used. I had many customers in Belfast, Derry and other places in my last company. What a waste.

Would you be saying the same about those terrorists that killed those in paris, germany, turkey, etc. They are all of brainwashed dead mentality, with guns & bombs.

Just a memory from the bad old days.

Not really a valid comparison. The kind of terrorists turned politicians I'm talking about, are ones whose terrorism was driven by a réalisable political objective, often to do with freedom from a colonial master. This new brand of al qaeda/isis inspired massacring of innocents seeks to destroy western culture and build a new caliphate, forcing people to convert or die. Not really any room for negotiation there.

In history, one mans terrorist has often been another man's freedom fighter. That most peaceful of men, Mahatma Gandhi, was declared a terrorist by parliament in 1932. Nelson Mandela was one, most of the top politicians in Israel have had a terrorist past. The nazis always referred to the French resistance as terrorists.

Now I'm not suggesting that Martin McGuinness is in the next Nelson Mandela, but the truth is that once we decided to negotiate in Ireland a peaceful solution was quite quickly found. This is not possible with the sort who are committing these recent atrocities.

I think it was Sir Humphrey who gave the letters JB to the leaders of various one time colonies, JB standing for "jailed by the british". Its a fact of life that one man's terrorist is anothers freedom fighter and the world is littered by ex terrorists who have fought for freedom as they see it form the british.

You might start the list with Paul Revere but you'd be starting late. What about Llywelyn ap Gruffud in 1274 or Menachem Begin or Kenyatta or the various Malays. I can only think of Ghandi who did it without too much violence , against us that is. He did enough against the Muslims.

In any case I wouldnt get too excited by McGuiness going - the "troubles" are a long way from over. Just paused for breath.

By the way I am not Irish in any sense.

P.S. he might or might not be playing politics but the waste of £450 million of taxpayers money requires that that incompetent woman resigns and a public enquiry. So I support him on this occasion

I completely agree with you Giles (and Howard).

As a point of interest, I was at corporate jolly a number of years back, in which the main 'entertainment' was being put through our paces playing management games led by a bunch of ex-Falklands Special Forces guys from the Control Risks Group, followed by a lecture from their boss, General Sir Michael Rose.

It was as part of the lecture that he explained that the factor that brought the Provisional IRA to the negotiating table was when they were confronted with the information that demonstrated British Intelligence had thoroughly penetrated their entire organisation. So much so that they realised that for them, the game was over.

Sir Michael's position was that "conflicts never end through the delivery of kinetic energy". If peace is to be made there has to be dialog and reconciliation, on which I completely agree.

On one hand the British Government pardoned him.....on the other they pursue a witch hunt against British troops who served over there. Strange balance really.

To be fair Jay, it's not the British Government doing the witch-hunting. Although I agree that it's weird that they don't seem overly keen on putting a stop to it.

I agree with howard re the transition from terrorist to bona fide statesman.
History is full of these changes.
I find appalling that so many in N Ireland have been granted amnesty or special treatment but not troops sent there. I do think that all sides( there were several factions/sides) overstepped at some times.
I watched an old documentary on you tube a couple of weeks back on the N Ireland situation. Convicted killers/terrorists now free , politicians, military etc.. it was clear that attitudes had softened away from continuing the violence and a move to narrative. There is still, however, an undercurrent of tension and wariness.
I went out there for work visits in the 90's and it was not a particularly relaxing time despite company security measures re transport, accomodation, chaperoning. Seeing the armed RUC guys and army in and around Aldergrove and Belfast City airports was a sobering sight. Even the steep take off/landing glidepaths in case of potshots at planes.
I met many great people out there though. I would go back too as it is less tense now.

I saw a picture of him in the paper today. He looked very ill.

I hope he doesn't pass away too soon. If there is any justice in this world it will be a long drawn out, unpleasant and painful business.