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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Posts: 35,776 Likes: 468 |
Just another murderer alongside his first wife.
2009 4/4 Henrietta
1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,610 Likes: 43
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan Member of the Inner Circle
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Wave & smile... It's a Morgan Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,610 Likes: 43 |
Hitler, he was quite nasty as well
(Just invoking Godwins Law)
2008 XXVII Platform, Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,776 Likes: 468
Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Posts: 35,776 Likes: 468 |
You wouldn't want him round for tea either.
Last edited by +8Rich; 21/03/17 10:03 PM.
2009 4/4 Henrietta
1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,776 Likes: 468
Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,776 Likes: 468 |
Idi Amin was known to be difficult too...
2009 4/4 Henrietta
1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,776 Likes: 468
Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Posts: 35,776 Likes: 468 |
Yes well that Guinness didn't last long time for another..
2009 4/4 Henrietta
1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev
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Joined: Apr 2014
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Charter Member
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Charter Member
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.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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There is a clause in the Good Friday agreement that states Northern Ireland can join the South if the people so wish. A typical Tony Blair fudge and one day we will have the Royalists fighting to remain in the Union. I agreed with Enoch Powel who stated that it must be made clear that Ireland would never be united no matter what the IRA did, thus negating the IRA's reasondetre. In my opinion there is too much forgiveness of evil in this world and the SAS should have been allowed to wipe out the IRA together with McGuiness. Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance John ? I'm pretty sure that the ONLY thing that you and I agree on is that Morgans are great cars. There is no such thing as a purely military solution to this sort of problem. If you can't see that there is significant blame which can be laid at Britain's door for the Irish troubles, then you clearly don't know much about Irish history. Eight hundred years of oppression does have a price to pay. May I suggest as a starting point that you read "God's Executioner", Michael O Siochrú's book about Cromwell's genocide and ethnic cleansing in Ireland, and also "The great hunger" Cecil Woodham-Smith's account of the famines. You might start to understand where the anger comes from. I am well aware of British/Irish history including Cromwell through the absent land lords and the pototoe famine plus the black and tans. The ruling classes of Britain do not shine in this. The protestants stem from the imported Scottish armies and they have been biggoted. My view is the the IRA was a murderous band visiting the sins of the father on the sons. By the way I read the Telegraph when I am having a leftish day.
John
1992 plus4 connaught green
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Needs to Get Out More!
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Needs to Get Out More!
Joined: Apr 2011
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Umkhonto, (or MK) the military wing of the ANC founded by Mandela certainly killed a lot of people, far more civilians including women and children than they did members of the security services. Their anthem Umkhonto we Siswe includes the line "We the members of the Umkhonto have pledged ourselves to kill them — kill the whites". So yes. Unquestionably Mandela was a terrorist.
Was he justified to take up arms ? Probably. The apartheid regime wasn't going to roll over and agree to democratic elections without some fairly vigorous encouragement.
Did it work ? Yes. He and FW de Klerc led South Africa out of the apartheid era without massive bloodshed.
The point about Mandela is not that he started out as a terrorist. It's the example of reconciliation that Mandela showed after his release which makes him so exceptional. Just a shame that his successors have let so much of his good work slip away.
Mandela could have been like Robert Mugabe. A terrorist who after a very brief interlude of pretending to be a democrat returned to being a terrorist, albeit in his capacity as President of his country.
Giles. Mogless in Paris.
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Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
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Well of course history cannot be reinvented, we just don't know what the increasing effect of international isolation and sanctions would have had on the apartheid regime. However that President Deklerk was a willing partner with Mandella, and indeed I believe was joint recipient of the Nobel peace prize, may indicate that there was indeed a changing attitude amongst the white ruling minority. We just don't know. We remain with the moral dilemma about means justifying ends. Given the state of present day South Africa some may assume that the lot of ordinary South Africans has not been much advanced by the terrorist efforts of the ANC.?
Andy
Laser red 4/4
Red Classic Mini Cooper Sport
Audi TT 2.0 TFSI Quatro
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Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
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Posts: 14,723 Likes: 149 |
Like many, I have pretty conflicted feelings. There's no doubt he was an enthusiastic instigator and participant in many terrorist acts that resulted in the deaths of many innocent people.
But he thought he was in the right, fighting a justified war against what he and the IRA saw as British oppression. Does that justify his actions? No, but it helps to aid our understanding of their motivations.
When he saw that the IRA had no chance of winning - the IRA had been thoroughly penetrated by British Intelligence and one of the things that brought them to the negotiating table was when the British revealed just how much they knew about the IRA's membership and activities - he then turned from war to peacemaking, and in his later years made a pretty reasonable job of it.
Does that excuse his earlier activities? Again, probably not.
The history of the British occupation of Ireland has not been a happy affair at any level, and the inevitable long-term outcome has to be a re-united Ireland. It will happen anyway as a result of demographic trends, and I think the biggest threat to peace in the region lies now with 'Loyalists' rather than the Republicans. Not to say this redeems the IRA in any way, they remain a bunch of criminal thugs who have no place in a civilised society. I'll go with that. Terrorism, to my mind is never justifiable. That includes terrorist bombs and government forces dropping bombs on civillian targets. I don't see any difference. I don't believe hell exists but I often wish it did. Strangely I am in favour of the death penalty for crimes against humanity and vicious and callous murderers but I can not see any justification for the indiscriminate killing of innocent people.
Peter ![[Linked Image]](http://bradley.it/public_images/drive.jpg)
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