|
7 members (TBM, GrumpyPa, Morganmike, Alistair, DPEvans, ChrisMorgan, piquet),
290
guests, and
27
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums39
Topics49,842
Posts837,331
Members9,596
| |
Most Online1,063
Jun 14th, 2026
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,560 Likes: 12
Talk Morgan Addict
|
Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,560 Likes: 12 |
....................I wonder if anyone has taken Morgan to court to try and recover all the costs of the chassis replacement. If nothing else it would be covered by EU consumer legislation. The car has only done 6500km. If no-one has ever threatened to sue them it would be a miracle, with all the problems they have had, with the Three Wheelers, especially, but if it was my business, I would certainly not want an expensive and potentially damaging court case hanging over me, with the resulting bad publicity, so it is quite probable that the company will deal quietly with the problem and then get the customer to sign a confidentially agreement, so the bad news isn't picked up by all and sundry. I would write a reasonable letter directly to Steve Morris in the first instance and see where you go from there. I have found him to be more than helpful in the past.
Paul
[At last, I have a car I can polish]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 580 Likes: 2
Talk Morgan Regular
|
|
OP
Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 580 Likes: 2 |
Well some good news at last. Morgan will allow RD racing to fit the new chassis and the labour costs are to be billed via the main agent, Marcassus. I think it is Marcassus in Toulouse that has arranged this rather than Morgan, so all credit to them.
The Chassis broke on the top right hand chassis rail, about half way between where the removable chassis brace bolts in and the curved welded in brace that runs over the top of the gearbox. My guess is that it is a corrosion assisted fatigue failure, caused by large bending loads being fed in from the top front wishbone, at least in part down to the incompetent front suspension design. Not only are the side loads from the wishbones being fed into the top tube but also 60ยบ loads from the coil-over spring/shock. A car engineering student in his first year at college, could look at it and say "that will bump steer like crazy due to the differing paths being described by the top suspension joint and steering joint" and "the top tube will probably fail due to the absence of load spreading transfer paths for the high loads being imposed." Eric Broadley would have looked at that design and wept.
It is worrying to hear that replacement chassis are also failing. Were those Mk1 or Mk2 chassis for the second failure?
Last edited by WilsonLaidlaw; 23/06/17 03:14 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,654 Likes: 4
Charter Member
|
|
Charter Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,654 Likes: 4 |
Complete disgrace for a car having seen such little use. I would be really angry if it was my car.
Martin (Deano)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 368 Likes: 1
Learner Plates Off!
|
|
Learner Plates Off!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 368 Likes: 1 |
My 2013 car has a 2015 spec chassis with about 18,500 km on the replacement. No cracks to date.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 582
Talk Morgan Regular
|
|
Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 582 |
Well, I have some good news. After dealing with the factory through my dealer (four and a half months of negations) I've finally had a reasonable offer. The offer is that I have my crack welded and take pictures and monitor. If the crack reappears or a new one they will send a new frame (to California and pay my dealer to replace it at no cost to me. The best before this I was to send the car back to Malvern (at my expence from California) I'm finally heartened and am feeling that finally Morgan realizes the importance of making us folks out here a bit happier.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,796 Likes: 5
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
|
|
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,796 Likes: 5 |
I'm going outside to check mine NOW.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 431
Learner Plates Off!
|
|
Learner Plates Off!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 431 |
When I see pics of the cracks it looks like the steel is very brittle - almost like cast iron when it breaks. It would be interesting what a metallurgist would make of its content and suitability in a chassis that has so much torsion and loading. I can see someone producing a replacement chassis for these cars in the future where the steel has more flexibility. I very nearly bought a 3 wheeler but the issues around the chassis put me off. If they were definately cured I coukd be tempted again in the future. They have the potential to be amazing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 580 Likes: 2
Talk Morgan Regular
|
|
OP
Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 580 Likes: 2 |
When I see pics of the cracks it looks like the steel is very brittle - almost like cast iron when it breaks. It would be interesting what a metallurgist would make of its content and suitability in a chassis that has so much torsion and loading. I can see someone producing a replacement chassis for these cars in the future where the steel has more flexibility. I very nearly bought a 3 wheeler but the issues around the chassis put me off. If they were definately cured I coukd be tempted again in the future. They have the potential to be amazing. I did metallurgy at university, albeit a long time ago. I think you are absolutely correct and there is something wrong with the steel the chassis is made from. On past experience with Morgan, I am guessing they will buy the tube from a broker or steel stockholder, to whom they will give a specification but want a cheap deal. The broker or stockholder, to maximise his profit, buys the steel piping from the cheapest source he can, which is likely to be India or China. There are problems with a lot of their steel. It has a high scrap/recycled content. Nothing wrong with that if it is properly processed but to do this requires long period of puddling with high temperatures to make the melt totally homogenous, all using expensive energy, so the temptation is to short circuit this process. This results in steel with so called inclusions in it. These act as a stress concentration points and starting points for failure. They also encourage corrosion by acting as a voltaic cells. The second problem is poor control of sulphur and phosphorous content. It is expensive to reduce the content of these elements from the steel melt. A higher content of them leads to the steel behaving inconsistently and being more brittle than its spec. Sounding familiar so far? In my view there is only one suitable material for making a tubular chassis and that is chrome-molybdenum steel tubing from a known steel maker in the UK, France or Germany. The best known version of this is Reynolds 531. This is tough, strong and very resistant to fatigue failure. I bet the M3W chassis is not made from it but it should be. Wilson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 32
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
|
|
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 32 |
When I see pics of the cracks it looks like the steel is very brittle - almost like cast iron when it breaks.... I did metallurgy at university, albeit a long time ago. I think you are absolutely correct and there is something wrong with the steel the chassis is made from. On past experience with Morgan, I am guessing they will buy the tube from a broker or steel stockholder, to whom they will give a specification but want a cheap deal. ... I thought chassis production was outsourced? http://www.abtproducts.com/
M3W5sp 2015, MSCC, MTWC, Oxon UK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,342 Likes: 49
Talk Morgan Guru
|
|
Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,342 Likes: 49 |
Interesting post Wilson... When I see pics of the cracks it looks like the steel is very brittle - almost like cast iron when it breaks. It would be interesting what a metallurgist would make of its content and suitability in a chassis that has so much torsion and loading. I can see someone producing a replacement chassis for these cars in the future where the steel has more flexibility. I very nearly bought a 3 wheeler but the issues around the chassis put me off. If they were definately cured I coukd be tempted again in the future. They have the potential to be amazing. I did metallurgy at university, albeit a long time ago. I think you are absolutely correct and there is something wrong with the steel the chassis is made from. On past experience with Morgan, I am guessing they will buy the tube from a broker or steel stockholder, to whom they will give a specification but want a cheap deal. The broker or stockholder, to maximise his profit, buys the steel piping from the cheapest source he can, which is likely to be India or China. There are problems with a lot of their steel. It has a high scrap/recycled content. Nothing wrong with that if it is properly processed but to do this requires long period of puddling with high temperatures to make the melt totally homogenous, all using expensive energy, so the temptation is to short circuit this process. This results in steel with so called inclusions in it. These act as a stress concentration points and starting points for failure. They also encourage corrosion by acting as a voltaic cells. The second problem is poor control of sulphur and phosphorous content. It is expensive to reduce the content of these elements from the steel melt. A higher content of them leads to the steel behaving inconsistently and being more brittle than its spec. Sounding familiar so far? In my view there is only one suitable material for making a tubular chassis and that is chrome-molybdenum steel tubing from a known steel maker in the UK, France or Germany. The best known version of this is Reynolds 531. This is tough, strong and very resistant to fatigue failure. I bet the M3W chassis is not made from it but it should be. Wilson
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
|
|
|
|
|
