Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Roll bar with type approval

You are correct pads can be built into a roll bar, but will loose its FIA/MSA certification as it is not the same roll bar as original.

The Librands Road bar is the best option for the road as it is behind you and the head rests, with the option of the race bar you have the best of both, hood goes up and down with the road bar and a race bar for track.
In reality any roll over in a mog roll bar or not is potentially fatal as we don't wear helmets!

Thats a good question!

I have read a lot in TM regarding roll bars (recently e.g. this thread) and came to the conclusion I'd like to have one.

I won't use the Mog on race tracks. I'm 56 and would rate me as a responsible driver (no severe accident in my life). But accidents can happen and we are not allone on the roads.

The Mog will be used for touring. During our several drives with rented Mogs we appreciated the comfort of the easy up hood and the slightly increased storage space of the flat back.

I'm really uncertain now how to decide.

Yes, it did indeed look like a nasty accident - but it wasn't Morgan, and it was also a comparatively old car, so could well have been caused by a component failure - something to which a modern Morgan would not be exposed in the same way.

I'm not trying to pretend that a roll bar is useless in the event of an accident in which the car ends up inverted, but I am trying to point out that

a) Those kinds of accidents are incredibly rare

and

b) In the kinds of accidents that do occur much more frequently, especially side or three-quarter impacts where the car doesn't flip, it's possible that a roll bar will cause additional injuries to the head if you're not using a proper 4 or 5-point harness and/or wearing a helmet.

The last thing I would ever wish to do is to put anyone off the idea of driving a Morgan, and if you feel that you still want a roll bar then go for it, but I'd like you to be reassured that many thousands of Morgan owners drive millions of miles quite happily without feeling the need for one - and that certainly doesn't mean we bimble about like we were driving Miss Daisy!

In your situation, where you'd need to have full type approval for any modification to your car, I would seriously recommend that you review the benefits (enhanced survival risk in the case of an incident with a vanishingly small probability of occurrence) compared to the costs (inconvenience, greater risk of head injury in normal driving).

I have a Librands on my plus8. The standard height one. There is an option to fit a higher one that (I think) meets FIA regs. A simple job to swop the top hoop part. The standard fits under my hood ok (classic hood not easy up). There is also an add on bar to allow multi point harnesses to be fitted. I have not used it.
I have lowered my seat too, so there is a little extra clearance. The hoop is at the back edge of the headrest and no padding needed.

I had the Aero Racing "Decorative" roll bar fitted to the Plus 8, it fits behind the top of the high back seats and is level with the top of the seats. So the headrest of the Aero seat keeps one's head away from the steel. It also fits, just, under the easy up hood.

Why did we fit it? Mostly for cosmetic reasons. It is not approved for competition use.

In the UK a roll bar on a road car does not have to be approved, in any way, unless it alters the structure of the car. The Aero Racing one bolts to existing mounts on the chassis so it is not approved. I know in other European countries all accessories must be "Approved" in some way.

MMC will not help in this matter.
I talked to them about "Type Approval" for a tow ball, as I want to fit a bike rack.

A senior MMC person told me not to even think about it, they know of one owner who submitted his Morgan for a Single Vehicle Type Approval, following a minor modification, and it failed on pedestrian safety, even though the modification had nothing to do with the front of the car.

All Trads and Supersports have an European Type Approval. So why did the car fail the SVTA?

I was told that a UK SVTA looks at the vehicle now and compares with the regulations now in force.
The MMC Type approval is old , rules have changed.
As the car has not changed the original European Type Approval is still valid.

This all seems very odd, does anyone know if I was being spun a yarn or given true facts?

Michael, TBH in my view this topic does not really shows a sufficient solution. I had thought about all the pros and cons regarding a roll bar in the same way you do it currently.

It is easy to be tempted to spend some money for emotional reasons, to feel saver. I also was short before ordering the Librands bar. It is the only roll bar which looks like it is out of the way in case of a side impact when driving without a helmet because it is placed so far back. Otherwise, as Cain stated, what kind of help will it deliver when you have to consider the survive line must be measured from the top of the cowl.

Mario seems to have chosen the best compromise, drive somehow with care without the rollbar on the road and add a "real" roll bar when going on track or hill climb in combination with a helmet. That said, the Librands track version could be a good solution because the upper half part is easily removable.

BTW this way the type approval issue is also solved as it seems to be impossible to get it under any circumstances for everyday road use but if you want to save your life during a track day you think first about having a protecting and proper roll bar and not about gov. papers.

The residual risk is one of the ingredients why other deny us Mog drivers.

Seems right to me, changes in TA requirements can't really be retrospective otherwise every time we increased our requirements for compliance we'd have to outlaw all the old cars on the road. But a vehicle submitted for approval would have to pass the requirements in force to obtain that approval.

Again a good question I am already asking myself! But if it's a question of probabilities it becomes difficult or scientific.

I have been told there are exemptions because MMC is a small manufacturer with less than 1000 cars per year (which might keep them from increasing production).

This is something where I fear Brexit might hurt Morgan. In a few years another revamp of hmologations comes up and Morgan might find itself with the same problem it has had in the USA.

Then again, it might be that by then the US reopen themselves to trads