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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,867 Likes: 167
Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,867 Likes: 167 |
Totally agree with that. What motoring journalist isn't irritating........... They don't represent anyone but themselves, and there is little difference between TV and magazines. Walking round Silverstone on Saturday highlights just how much pleasure petrolheads get from a whole range of cars. Long may that continue. Journalists are entertainers. Nothing more. Buy your next car with your heart, not your head. But Morgan owners do that already............ 
DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,190
South Wales Correspondent Talk Morgan Expert
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South Wales Correspondent Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,190 |
For all the magazines in the world we all know the answer: try before you buy because you are an individual. An issue that is overlooked by one person becomes of paramount importance to another.
This is why I take little stock in motor journalism these days. I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about it, actually. I still feel a bit of jetlag so I won't go in to full-on rant mode, but essentially:
- Everything is reviewed as a 'sports car' with esoteric references to 'driver interaction' and 'purity'. What determines this arcane concepts nobody knows, but if you're a motor journalist it is the most important thing in the world to act as if you are an arbiter of distilled motoring essence - or something. Even if you're reviewing a panel van. See also: talking about weight because you've read it in the spec sheet rather than actually having driven the car and assessed it on its own merits.
- None of them care about the journey anymore, which is as equally important as the car. Cars are contextual objects. I would no more use a Reliant Robin to go to the 'Ring (although I'm sure someone's done it...) than I would use a Ferrari FXX to nip to the local Happy Shopper emporium. This is tied in with point 1, i.e. reviews of Grand Tourers criticise them for not having 'the last word in driver feedback', yet the fact that Porsche fit tyres unusable in the wet OEM never gets mentioned in a country that rains more days of the year than not.
- Usability, reliability, all the stuff that egotistical journos on 'performance' mags take the piss out of other almanacs for covering are some of the most important factors in determining where to spend your hard earned. Go to a car boot or ebay and buy a 1960s/70s copy of Motor and see how in-depth the car reviews are. They are as close to objective as I have ever seen and that includes the original test of the Countach, 911 Turbo, etc. They were also far more interesting from a technical point of view and that's coming from someone with a very limited knowledge; however, they were written in such an illuminating way that a novice such as myself could be immersed in pertinent details.
- Despite the fact that reviews are never objective they completely ignore subjectivity. My parents have a new-shape Civic. I don't like it because all the controls are incredibly light and as such I find the styling incongruous. My folks, however, include my mum in her 60s who's had a stroke and a heart attack (thankfully she's better now) and my dad who carts carpet samples around for a living. They have an included service plan and Honda reliability - and it does great mpg. Wonder why they like it?
- I saw Autocar's '90 second review' of the Maserati Gran Cabrio or whatever it's called and they were still talking about scuttle shake/chassis flex. Give me a break. It's amazing that these journos don't crash the cars, they must have their eyes perma-glued to the fabled shaking rear-view mirror. I find it unbelievable that in the country that has the greatest legacy of open-topped sports cars that they still focus on finding the merest hint of the roof having been lopped off the car. Well, duh, we all know what that does for structural integrity. Buyers aren't stupid, please stop patronising them. A mild shake through the steering wheel is of little concern when you can hear 4.7 litres of Italian V8 and the wind through your toupee. Let us hope they never drive a Triumph TR6, or an MGB, or...
Lots more besides. Motor journalism needs a massive shake-up. True- and I agree- but whether we like it or not there will be SOME consumers who will be influenced by what they say. So, even if what they say is incorrect it will nevertheless have a potential effect on buyers or would- be buyers . We can philosophise as much as we like- that hard fact remains G
GLLHG
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,422 Likes: 5
Goodwood Drifter Talk Morgan Addict
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Goodwood Drifter Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,422 Likes: 5 |
at least EVO reviews CLEARLY and without hiding it: PURE DRIVING PLEASURE
but imho, no one ever tested the Aero-series the way it should,
in a "long term test" with roadtrips/ring-trips/trackday/long journey with the wife included
personally: there is a lot to improve which doesn't bother me,
but second: how can they deliver cars with "basic things not seriously checked?????"
an third: I was at the RING today and saw:
Lexus LFA (ugly), all kind of Porsches 911, BMW M3gts, 458, Superleggera, CarreraGT,.........and a lime-mettalic-green Wiessman MF5 with black interior: damn it looked GORGEOUS, the fat wings, the bully nose: I loved it and wouldn't be ashamed to announce having bought one with the M3-V8engine
if they only didn't do "plastic" combined with 180000euro
Steven
sold: M3W, Aeromax,V6, 4/4 4seater
now: +fourLM62
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,827 Likes: 4
le Asbo du Bling Talk Morgan Addict
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le Asbo du Bling Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,827 Likes: 4 |
but imho, no one ever tested the Aero-series the way it should,
in a "long term test" with roadtrips/ring-trips/trackday/long journey with the wife included
Steven I would agree, but let's be honest I doubt that anyone on this forum bought an aero on the basis of a magazine reviews. Maybe a few Maxis went that way. But the vast majority of owners are attracted for other reasons. I was at a Sport Bears event last weekend, I had two rides who had thought about aeros, but once they had been for a spin where off to look what was in the market. Another TVR owner was talking about overall cost of ownership, when I relayed my experience in the cost of owning two aeros considered that they had a bum deal in terms of keeping the car on the road. It was this that put mr off the TVR and over to the aero. To me the aero is like a modern classic car, it will go wrong, but then again so has my BMW and every Audi I have owned. I agree with Gerwyn that MMC could do more on basic QC and I do feel they may regret not doing so with the continuing move up market, into the world where people are too busy and use some the motoring mags to help short list vehicles.
Slowly going green
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 961
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 961 |
I don't think EVO review clearly at all. Their original review of the Aston DBS was shocking and full of nonsense, being reviewed as a 'sports car' with factually incorrect references. Now, somehow, they rate it as one of their favourite GTs having driven them for thousands of miles. Wow, shock horror, a grand tourer that's good at being a grand tourer?
They no more review contextually than any other magazine.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 441
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 441 |
What you say makes sense.
I have said before that had I lived within 100 miles of the factory I would almost certainly have kept my Aero 8.
In the end however quality and reliability were the main driving forces.
In truth if looking for a £150k sports car I would buy an R8 GT. For me the quality, reliability and most importantly the service both at a local and national level from Audi is top notch.
Please don't think that I am just having a shot at MMC for the sake of it.They are many decent and hard working people at the factory including the likes of Steve Morris and Mark Baldwin. However the pedal car has been a real eye opener - how it can be returned with the handbrake not reconnected (having been disconnected for the repair it seems) is beyond me and colours my view completely.
The other areas that MMC need to address apart from QC are aero (please excuse the pun but most supercars are designed in a wind tunnel) and stability control.
Rbt Aero8 
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,422 Likes: 5
Goodwood Drifter Talk Morgan Addict
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Goodwood Drifter Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,422 Likes: 5 |
I don't think EVO review clearly at all. Their original review of the Aston DBS was shocking and full of nonsense, being reviewed as a 'sports car' with factually incorrect references. Now, somehow, they rate it as one of their favourite GTs having driven them for thousands of miles. Wow, shock horror, a grand tourer that's good at being a grand tourer?
They no more review contextually than any other magazine. they more than once stated they got very different quality in cars from the same model, last time I read that was on the F599
Steven
sold: M3W, Aeromax,V6, 4/4 4seater
now: +fourLM62
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,564
NGUNS!! Part of the Furniture
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NGUNS!! Part of the Furniture
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,564 |
I must admit I am not a fan of Jason Barlow. However in the rarified company that MMC now find them in the likes of the Super Sports have to stand up to objective criticism and comparison. Comparing a then £60-70k Aero 8 to a Weismann is one thing but a £125000 plus supersports is completely different. At the end of the day we all have different likes, dislikes and limits to what we find tolerable. Morgan is such a wonderful marque but I have a feeling that MMC are going to have a rude awakening at this end of the market.  We recently received our supersports junior pedal car back from it's second visit to the factory. It had been back after Christmas for a new chassis (problem with first batch of chassis) and suspect that the cause of the second problem (broken sprockets) was present/caused then. It was delivered back last week with a non functioning handbrake - apparently it was disconnected for the repair and not reconnected!  CP no doubt! That is simply careless if not ndownright dangerous - would I now trust them with a 150mph supercar? Weismann verus SS? If in the market for either it would be the former for me. Sorry. Regards, Robert For a post that contains some fair and reasonable points to then come out with this is frankly surprising and disappointing: "would I now trust them with a 150mph supercar? " What? On the basis of some issues with a pedal car? It's a pedal car for Gods sake. It's a completely different kettle of fish. I once bought a Porsche Design watch and the enamel paint wore off. Didn't give me concerns on the paint finish of a 911. Yes I know they were expensive but you chose to buy and I would suggest that choice was made based upon nostalgia, design and maybe a bit of uniqueness. I also agree that shoddy workmanship (should that be the issue) should be minimised and corrected but to say that you wouldn't have a Morgan because of that is a tad over the top IMHO. I understand you had issues with your Aero and that you lived too far from the factory to be able to put up with them. Fair enough; and covered more than adequately by your "different likes and dislikes" comment. TBH also clearly indicated by your sale of the car after such a short (relatively) time. Personally I live over a 100 miles away from the factory also, and whilst I accept Aeroman constantly telling me that it's different for me as "I have a well sorted car", I still get it serviced at the factory; but that again is simple choice, you feel that's a step too far I don't. I won't pretend that your numerous 'complaints' about MMC don't annoy me because they do (just being honest) and I do find most of your posts quite reasoned; but I simply think that you are looking for something that Morgan isn't. Maybe the 'magic' and 'soul' that we all (well most of us) feel just isn't in you? Nowt wrong with that, nor does it make your opinion any less worthy (as is every petrolheads opinion in my view). You also quote in another post that you would prefer the reliability of an Audi, please read Asbos post just above. Not every Audi is reliable nor is every dealer helpful. I have two more examples of how 'bad' Audi can be. I am though definitely not stupid enough to believe that means all Audis are thus. Similarly why not enjoy a reliable 911? Just watch out for RMS issues and seized cylinders. I had a 1994 Ferrari in the 90's, same issues, water ingress in roof etc etc etc... still loved it. My point of all this is, yes MMC cars are not the ultimate in QC and reliability. They probably have more minor glitches than the average though I would deign to say as many if not less major ones? Frustrating nonetheless. They also have many design foibles that a larger manufacturer would not allow, but MMC have limitations due to size. They can and should improve (as should all businesses) Nd some improvements will be easier than others. They make fabulous cars though dont they? I don't think I can say too much more to a privately owned business except that I vote with my feet (and money) and all the time they produce cars with soul and exuberance and design flourish I will still knock on their door. As will hopefully many others. Many will not. As someone has previously said, we all have different likes and dislikes.
Cheers
BtG
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 961
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 961 |
I don't think EVO review clearly at all. Their original review of the Aston DBS was shocking and full of nonsense, being reviewed as a 'sports car' with factually incorrect references. Now, somehow, they rate it as one of their favourite GTs having driven them for thousands of miles. Wow, shock horror, a grand tourer that's good at being a grand tourer?
They no more review contextually than any other magazine. they more than once stated they got very different quality in cars from the same model, last time I read that was on the F599 They say that all the time - I don't believe them. Not quite what I meant, anyhow. I've done a Google and found Ollie Marriage's review: "Four seats and an automatic gearbox? For your own sake, Aston, please stop claiming this is a hardcore sports car. It isn’t." I have never seen Aston Martin claim the DBS was a 'hardcore sports car'. I wrote to Evo at the time of the review quoting from Aston's own literature ('luxury sports car', a term to be used in all markets) but they didn't print the letter. Surprise, surprise. That was around the time I stopped buying Evo. I presume it's better with the Driver's Republic lot now but I think it's quite expensive for what you get compared with Octane, its sister mag. Obviously his patronising tone about what's good for the company surely cost Aston many sales! Talk about ego...
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,903 Likes: 134
The TM in Talk Morgan Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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The TM in Talk Morgan Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,903 Likes: 134 |
I remember hearing a story from a friend of mine who was in events planning. They took part in the launch that Audi arranged for the TT (so going back awhile).
There were a few stories from this new car launch but one that sticks in my mind is of a well known journalist who was unhappy with his location on the plane flight to the destination. He asked to be moved and when met with resistance (the plane was full), the quote was, "I suggest you find me another seat or I can tell you right now that the review of the car is going to reflect my dissatisfaction."
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