Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Tax dodging

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-41879690

Is it wrong to avoid tax ?If its legal its ok ?

Let he who's never said "how much for cash?" cast the first stone.

I am effectively tax dodging with salary sacrifice for my small pension contribution, at what level does tax dodging become distasteful?


Most people would like to pay no taxes, but it's easy to revile corporations and the rich and famous.

The attractive girl out of Mrs Browns Boys can hide her pennies under my pillow anytime, but not the mog she will never be wealthy enough to do that .

There’s three different behaviours going on. Sadly the press report them as one.

- Spending money in a tax efficient way. Stand up Lewis. You paid tax on the money to buy the plane, and then went to the lowest cost place to buy it. So, the same as comparison site shopping, on a grander scale. Fodder for the gossip, but nothing to interest the tax man.

- Moving corporate money around to minimise (eliminate) taxes on profits. At one level, it’s the same as smart shopping, and that’s how the accountants pass it off. On the other hand, those profits arose in a number of different countries, and it’s not in the long term interest of each domestic economy to have money siphoned off. Something should be done to have some correlation between turnover, profit and tax, on a country by country basis.

- Don’t pay me, pay my company. It’s in [name an overseas country with a low tax policy]. & my company buys me things and lends me money (which I’ll never repay).
This is morally wrong, and should be stopped.

Will

The burden to pay taxes that generate the funds for a country to supply the services we would like always falls on Mr & Mrs average. If the wealthy and the corporations paid the same percentages as Average worker then all would greatly benefit. Yes most will seek to game from legal minimisation of tax, but very little opportunity exists for the morjority.
As AI creeps into all aspects of work practice then perhaps the tax collection strategy’s of governments will need to change, as will the wealth distribution.

I don't know the detail of the relationship between the Isle of Man and UK tax authorities but I do know that its a close one. In the case of Hamilton's jet, I doubt the Isle of Man has stood the £3million VAT refund and it is therefore possible that this (and other Jets, according to the news) has come out of the UK Treasury funds.

The issue here is that some small states don't administer tax by the rules, they have a flexible approach. Jersey in particular has a tiny tax authority and what amounts to informal taxation if the stories around are true.

Hamilton is not to blame for this - he wouldn't have a clue, and he will have advisors who will profit from managing his tax 'effectively'.

In terms of the "pay my salary to Bermuda and I'll loan it back......."
If we all did this, there would be no PAYE. It's a typical "me first" mentality of the wealthy, who still expect the NHS to deliver when the chips are down, and still expect the forces to deliver when necessary.

The previous disclosure caught a lot of celebrities out, and this one is heading the same way. Lots more will be going on behind the scenes.

Governments should be able to design tax systems that prevent this sort of thing happening.

The Press and Media should be encouraged to expose these sorts of behaviour whereever and whenever they can. Sunlight is the best disinffectant.

Individual rich people and corporations should stop using the "It's legal, so it must be OK" defence, and start acting like civilised members of society.

Individual normal people should start using their economic power to influence the behaviour of rich people and corporations. Don't like the fact that Apple isn't paying its fair share of tax? Stop buying their products and tell them why.

Tax Dodging arises because the warped minds of accountants (apologies in advance to DW and others) think it is a "game" to be "played".

It has been described to me by one high up in the Accountancy world as no different to F1.
Rules are made by the "regulator" and the accountants do, as the engineers in F1 do, all they can find the best solution for their clients.

I'm as guilty, as many on this Forum, of taking professional advice to make sure I pay the least amount of Tax that is in full compliance with the rules.
In that way I am NO different to any of the celebs, the amounts may well be less, but the principal is the same: legal cheating. I'm not proud, but if everyone is doing it?

The only way to stop all that is to have a universal flat rate tax, no allowances or exceptions. It works well in Estonia.

But then what would we do with all the unemployed civil servants, accountants and lawyers?

BTW, I'm sickened by the sanctimonious, hypocritical rantings of certain politicians and the media on this subject.

The thing is, you'll never know what really goes on, because most of it never reaches public gaze.

I suspect that the current batch of celebs using offshore companies will be offered a chance to pay up. If they don't and there is no existing legal precedent to dis-apply the arrangement, a case will be taken through the system. Artificial constructs usually lose in court these days, and if that happens, then the celebs may get a back tax bill, plus interest plus penalties.

I'll be retired by then so probably won't see the fun and games.

Unconnected with the present news, but typical of the wealthy mentality:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/01/barclay-brothers-lose-tax-case-against-hmrc