Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Aero 8, 2012< Plus 8, SuperSports, Coupe & Aeromax Morgan in BBC Top Gear magazine

My old Tiv was an early wedge - not a lot of carpet and virtually no leather
Agree with the price / comparison...

Cheers,

Simon,

I must admit I am not a fan of Jason Barlow.

However in the rarified company that MMC now find them in the likes of the Super Sports have to stand up to objective criticism and comparison. Comparing a then £60-70k Aero 8 to a Weismann is one thing but a £125000 plus supersports is completely different.

At the end of the day we all have different likes, dislikes and limits to what we find tolerable.

Morgan is such a wonderful marque but I have a feeling that MMC are going to have a rude awakening at this end of the market.

We recently received our supersports junior pedal car back from it's second visit to the factory. It had been back after Christmas for a new chassis (problem with first batch of chassis) and suspect that the cause of the second problem (broken sprockets) was present/caused then. It was delivered back last week with a non functioning handbrake - apparently it was disconnected for the repair and not reconnected! CP no doubt! That is simply careless if not ndownright dangerous - would I now trust them with a 150mph supercar?

Weismann verus SS? If in the market for either it would be the former for me. Sorry.

Regards,

Robert

Hi Robert, no disagreement from me here.

As I've always said, the higher the price of the product, the more demanding the customer is (I know this is a generalisation but not an unfair one imho).

A nicely specified SuperSports is £135,000+ and at this price, there is a lot of very attractive competition.

This doesn't mean Morgan cannot compete but simply that the rules of the game have changed as they move into a very competitive market place.

IMHO, there is no modern competition for the Classic range - the only competition would be buying a classic car. In essence, the choice is a new car, with classic looks vs a classic with potential reliability issues, fear of rust, etc.

I would view this as a very nice marketplace to operate within as competition is limited and demand (with the right marketing) is present.

The SuperSports is being sold into a market where there is a lot of other companies competing for the customers money. From large (Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi (R8), Mercedes (SLS), etc) to small (Wiesmann, Noble, Ginetta, etc), they all offer something that may tempt a buyer.

The SuperSport (and most other small companies offerings) can trade on rarity but there must be other factors or they will not secure the sale.

I haven't read the article but have never been keen on the styling of the Wiesmann; therefore, given the choice of the 2, I know where my money would go.

I agree with Simon. Morgans appeal to us because they are a blend of old and new. It is essentially a new vintage car. The style of the Wiesmann doesn't appeal to me.The car they tested was white had a red leather interior, red wheels and a red radiator grille.
When Charles saw the car he said "Oh God, what's that doing here?"..."Red leather interior, I see. How lovely..."

Maybe this colour scheme might appeal to a pimp(welcome to my crib)!

But like a said before there seems to be a problem with the power assisted steering of the supersports. There's something wrong with the software. IMHO they should solve this. It's life threatening if you cannot keep a Morgan on the road with 367 bhp on tap!

Any business who ignores this would do so at their peril. There may be exceptions to the rule however quality of goods is a prime motivator as price increases.

I will visit Smiths as I am interested in assessing this review.

After reading this thread, I picked up a copy of Top Gear on my way through the airport and read the article last night. It really confirmed to me why I never buy this magazine, as it is very much like the TV programme; in that it's not a proper motoring magazine but purely something classed as entertainment!

I don't have the article with me, but it really epitomises this approach. Whilst I agree that Morgan have to compete with the SuperSport at this rarefied end of the market, personally I find the design of the Wiesmann far too derivative and they are imho really appealing to a completely different market, Barlow himself refers to it as the transvestite car! I'll post the exact quote when I get home tonight.

There is no proper motoring or driving analysis of either car, but just some empty headed comment that really does not move the game forward. The recent article in Evo on the SuperSports is of much more value and this is also a magazine that commands respect for its motoring values.

I look forward to hearing your own comments Aerobic, when you pick up your own car shortly. Personally, I am more than happy with my own SuperSports and having seen the show stand of Wiesmann at Geneva I can't see myself ever buying one of them.

Come now Brian, since when have car magazine editorials been bound by the truth?!

Top Gear, as has been said time and time again, became entertainment rather than studied review many years ago (the magazine is more information focused than the TV program but that isn't saying much).

As Morgan enthusiasts, we have to have thick skin (especially as I stated before, as the MSRP increases) because many motoring journalists simply don't get these idiosyncratic cars. If you need further proof, read the Top Gear Morgan Roadster review (7/10, a slating and the conclusion: - "As fine a British institution as cold showers and buggery, and about as comfortable, the Morgan Roadster is an antiquated indulgence that you shouldn’t want but absolutely will the second you step aboard."

Most journalists don't get Morgans - Classic or Aero - plain and simple.

I remember reading reviews of the Aeromax that were predominantly positive, with a few negatives thrown in (my personal favourite was the celebrity chef who reviewed Brian's car for the Weekend Telegraph or some similar weekend supplement and got upset because he burnt his ankle on the side exits) and yet they all rolled out the same dull copy: looks like something Bruce Wayne would drive, made of wood, more leather than a gentleman's smoking club, blah, blah blah."

Invariably they all closed with, "it doesn't matter what I think because they are all sold and there is a waiting list", in essence making all their previous comments pointless other than for entertainment purposes... which neatly brings us back to Top Gear.

Journalists, don't take them seriously. Drive the car and make your mind up for yourself. Or at least let Aeroman take you for a spin (not literally! because that is Steve 1560's job))

Having driven the Weissman V10 pace car at the GT3 event in Portugal last year I can confirm that I consider them much like a TVR - Great looking inside in garish colours.

As for driving, not impressed will stick with the Aero. Cannot compare Weissman to TVR on the driving front as I've never driven a TVR

Simon ( and indeed everyone else)

I'd like to pick up on a particukar comment you made:

"IMHO, there is no modern competition for the Classic range - the only competition would be buying a classic car. In essence, the choice is a new car, with classic looks vs a classic with potential reliability issues, fear of rust, etc.

I would view this as a very nice marketplace to operate within as competition is limited and demand (with the right marketing) is present."


I'm going to tread very carefully here because I think my views on QA at MMC are well-documented and don't need a further detailed airing.

Can I also preface my remarks by saying that I recognise fully that there are some excellent people at the Factory who do go 'the extra mile for customers.

I'm not going to say anything about the non- trad cars, except that I think a few of you have articulated this issue of market sector change/ expectation much better than I could.

My concern is that from a fair amount of evidence (some of it anecdotal but the majority of it coming from people who are already fans of the trad part of the range) I remain to be convinced that the QA issues are being addressed in a way will allow MMC to keep a majority share of what is in many ways a unique market.
I've seen a fair number of new trads over the last year and some of the errors, unfinisheds and rough edges have been frankly unacceptable. If I had been doing the PDI, I'd have needed a small notebook to write down all the issues.
I also recognise that the cars are built down to a budget and that costing issues are vital but within this any company can only stretch an exisiting customer base loyalty so far and once it is damaged, what may have taken years to build up may take only months to diminish dramatically.

I really would hate to see that happen but I'm a little worried it might

Me? I don't a have a problem becuase I grew up with the things and I knew exactly what I was getting. In the case of other people- especially those 'new to the Morgan experience' buyers- who might might be attracted, I'm not so sure they will see it as part of the charm of the car but rather more as a reason not to buy one or not keep it if they have

regards,
G ( not ranting)

For all the magazines in the world we all know the answer: try before you buy because you are an individual. An issue that is overlooked by one person becomes of paramount importance to another.

This is why I take little stock in motor journalism these days. I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about it, actually. I still feel a bit of jetlag so I won't go in to full-on rant mode, but essentially:

- Everything is reviewed as a 'sports car' with esoteric references to 'driver interaction' and 'purity'. What determines this arcane concepts nobody knows, but if you're a motor journalist it is the most important thing in the world to act as if you are an arbiter of distilled motoring essence - or something. Even if you're reviewing a panel van. See also: talking about weight because you've read it in the spec sheet rather than actually having driven the car and assessed it on its own merits.

- None of them care about the journey anymore, which is as equally important as the car. Cars are contextual objects. I would no more use a Reliant Robin to go to the 'Ring (although I'm sure someone's done it...) than I would use a Ferrari FXX to nip to the local Happy Shopper emporium. This is tied in with point 1, i.e. reviews of Grand Tourers criticise them for not having 'the last word in driver feedback', yet the fact that Porsche fit tyres unusable in the wet OEM never gets mentioned in a country that rains more days of the year than not.

- Usability, reliability, all the stuff that egotistical journos on 'performance' mags take the piss out of other almanacs for covering are some of the most important factors in determining where to spend your hard earned. Go to a car boot or ebay and buy a 1960s/70s copy of Motor and see how in-depth the car reviews are. They are as close to objective as I have ever seen and that includes the original test of the Countach, 911 Turbo, etc. They were also far more interesting from a technical point of view and that's coming from someone with a very limited knowledge; however, they were written in such an illuminating way that a novice such as myself could be immersed in pertinent details.

- Despite the fact that reviews are never objective they completely ignore subjectivity. My parents have a new-shape Civic. I don't like it because all the controls are incredibly light and as such I find the styling incongruous. My folks, however, include my mum in her 60s who's had a stroke and a heart attack (thankfully she's better now) and my dad who carts carpet samples around for a living. They have an included service plan and Honda reliability - and it does great mpg. Wonder why they like it?

- I saw Autocar's '90 second review' of the Maserati Gran Cabrio or whatever it's called and they were still talking about scuttle shake/chassis flex. Give me a break. It's amazing that these journos don't crash the cars, they must have their eyes perma-glued to the fabled shaking rear-view mirror. I find it unbelievable that in the country that has the greatest legacy of open-topped sports cars that they still focus on finding the merest hint of the roof having been lopped off the car. Well, duh, we all know what that does for structural integrity. Buyers aren't stupid, please stop patronising them. A mild shake through the steering wheel is of little concern when you can hear 4.7 litres of Italian V8 and the wind through your toupee. Let us hope they never drive a Triumph TR6, or an MGB, or...

Lots more besides. Motor journalism needs a massive shake-up.