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Wales
by Joske Vermeule, September 1
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Forums39
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Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,904 Likes: 352
Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
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Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,904 Likes: 352 |
There are a couple of threads about CGON on here.
I have been contemplating it for the 90 - not for fuel consumption.
Graham (G4FUJ)
Sold L44FOR 4/4 Giallo Fly
'11 MINI Countryman Cooper D All4
'90 LR 90 SW
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,550 Likes: 5
Talk Morgan Addict
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Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,550 Likes: 5 |
Did he just invent this, or is the news paper a bit slow on the uptake? You have been able to buy kits from the states for years. I was toying with the idea of getting one over ten years ago.
Mark - No Longer driving Archie the Old English Sheep Mog........... 2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) 
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,825 Likes: 69
Talk Morgan Addict
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Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,825 Likes: 69 |
People have been doing it with jam jars inside the bonnet for years.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,612 Likes: 15
Part of the Furniture
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Part of the Furniture
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,612 Likes: 15 |
people have also do this with water before now. Thought Volvo got into trouble with one of their race cars for it.
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater
'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,587
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Aug 2014
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So why if its 'been around' is it not being used by the big car companies ?
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,945 Likes: 28
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,945 Likes: 28 |
OK I am almost 50 years out of university but this still smells like snake oil to me. To split hydrogen from oxygen in an electrolyte takes at least as much energy as is released again by burning the hydrogen in an engine. It may well take more energy , wasted in things like heating the electrolyte and resistance heating of the wiring in the cells etc. And that energy is produced by the car engine, so at best its a zero sum game.
Car engine produces energy - some used to drive alternator - some alternator output used to power "fuel cell" - gasese generated back into engine - gases burned to generate less energy than used in fuel cell.
IMO the likelyhood is that the power going to the rear wheels will be a bit less than normal but the mix of gases being burned means that there is a bit less CO2.
Can anyone whose physics and chemistry is a bit more up to date comment on this? I might be wrong but it looks to me like the "cold fusion" claims we periodically see.
P.S. The ratio of ortho hydrogen to para hydrogen is a max of 3:1 at room temperature and above. But AFAIK there is no difference in energy released on combustion anyway
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,260 Likes: 319
Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,260 Likes: 319 |
OK I am almost 50 years out of university but this still smells like snake oil to me. To split hydrogen from oxygen in an electrolyte takes at least as much energy as is released again by burning the hydrogen in an engine. It may well take more energy , wasted in things like heating the electrolyte and resistance heating of the wiring in the cells etc. And that energy is produced by the car engine, so at best its a zero sum game.
Car engine produces energy - some used to drive alternator - some alternator output used to power "fuel cell" - gasese generated back into engine - gases burned to generate less energy than used in fuel cell.
IMO the likelyhood is that the power going to the rear wheels will be a bit less than normal but the mix of gases being burned means that there is a bit less CO2.
Can anyone whose physics and chemistry is a bit more up to date comment on this? I might be wrong but it looks to me like the "cold fusion" claims we periodically see.
P.S. The ratio of ortho hydrogen to para hydrogen is a max of 3:1 at room temperature and above. But AFAIK there is no difference in energy released on combustion anyway I don't disagree with what you are saying, and AFAIK the main claims for this device are about cleaning up emissions rather than decreasing fuel consumption which is only around 5% I think. I think the theory is that this would come from the hydrogen enabling more complete combustion of the primary fuel. I don't think anyone is claiming over-unity power production on this.
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,366 Likes: 354
Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,366 Likes: 354 |
Can anyone remember the 'steam injection' which was around in the sixties and seventies?
It was a simple water reservoir which was heated through the exhaust manifold, and the steam was fed into the air filter.
Smoother running and better MPG were the claims.
DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,794 Likes: 15
Formerly known as Aldermog Member of the Inner Circle
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Formerly known as Aldermog Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,794 Likes: 15 |
My son has a Water Methanol injection fitted to his Focus ST. This cools the charge significantly and increases power.
But does it clean up the emissions?
Probably: the car has no cat yet passed the MOT tailpipe emissions test.
I do wonder if a small Hydrogen cylinder might achieve exactly the same result.
Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...
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