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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,723 Likes: 2
Talk Morgan Sage
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Talk Morgan Sage
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,723 Likes: 2 |
I spent the first 10 years of my career working for an American braking system manufacturer which gives me a more than a certain sensitivity to product failure, recalls and litigation.
I fully understand the difficulty that MMC will have in assessing the statistical likelihood of a failure being "sudden and catastrophic" vs a progressive failure on a chassis / wishbone mount that can be anticipated in advance as a result of differing vehicle behaviour. I suspect it is this dilemma which is causing them rightly to be very supportive of fixing issues when they occur so they can also see and touch the failures first hand and determine the likelihood of one of these failures becoming "sudden and catastrophic" as opposed to progressive and observable.
I suspect any other wishbone failures (as opposed to chassis / wishbone mount) if they occur, will never be progressive which in my mind falls into a different category.
Truth is though, I just want to enjoy driving this beautiful looking car, enjoy the strange noises, interesting unreliability, and all its other fantastic idiosyncrasies without worrying about rate of propagation of stress fractures in items which should have been designed not to fail in normal use in the first place. Excellent post MJF +1 Safety needs to be paramount..
Steve
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,790 Likes: 471
Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,790 Likes: 471 |
It sure reads like a full recall to me.
From past experience with the M3W MMC do seem reluctant to trigger this.
Maybe I am wrong. My overriding concern is safety.
I do not want to read about a catastrophic event.
That is my concern it's the only important thing really the risk factor plus being in a very low vulnerable vehicle.
2009 4/4 Henrietta
1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 167
L - Learner Plates On
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L - Learner Plates On
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 167 |
Just checked my May 2013 car with 5800 miles on the clock. No visible signs of any cracks found in any of the known places. This might be down to the lower mileage than the current cars that are presenting with cracks. Will keep inspecting on a regular basis.
Thank you for alerting us to this. Worrying for those who own these early cars and are not looking at Talk Morgan.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363 |
If, as was stated earlier there were 782 M3W's produced in 2013 and also a number produced up to 2013 then there are likely to be over 800 that would be eligible for a recall.
If each one takes almost a day to rectify, based on 250 working days a year this would amount to over 3 years to put right.
MMC would not be able to cope with this and if they leave the responsibility of the repairs to dealers we are then into the question of how good are the welders that the dealers would be using.
I can stick lumps of metal together with a welder but I would not like to rely on my welds for my safety or that of my passengers.
This repair should only be carried out by suitably qualified welders. I only hope that the guy that repaired mine at the factory is suitably qualified!!
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,363 Likes: 11
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,363 Likes: 11 |
I don't know if repairs are enough to fix the 2012/2013 chassis out there. MMC totally replaced my 2012 chassis and from what I saw of the original stock unit and what the new replacement is there are just too many changes. Everything from the front of the body frame forward has been beefed up, strengthened with added gussets and very possibly tube wall thickness.
It's your basic total rebuild. I believe qualified welders would be good to go with a complete manual with regard to specification changes. Anything less is a hope and by golly...
What's your mileage? Who cares. Is it practical? See #1. What happens when it rains? You get wet.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,642
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,642 |
Oh dear … will need to check mine (it's a 2014, but you never know …) Three wheeler ownership is equivalent to heading off to Fire Lake. Not sure about us braving any bronze beauties, but we're all definitely playing those eights and aces. Bob Seger had it right with those opening lines ...
Who's gonna ride that chrome three wheeler
Who's gonna make that first mistake
Who wants to wear those gypsy leathers
All the way to Fire Lake
Who wants to break the news about Uncle Joe
You remember Uncle Joe
He was the one afraid to cut the cake
Who wants to tell poor Aunt Sarah
Joe's run off to Fire Lake
Joe's run off to Fire Lake
Who wants to brave those bronze beauties
Lying in the sun
With their long soft hair falling
Flying as they run
Oh they smile so shy
And they flirt so well
And they lay you down so fast
Till you look straight up and say
Oh Lord
Am I really here at last
Who wants to play those eights and aces
Who wants a raise
Who needs a stake
Who wants to take that long shot gamble
And head out to Fire Lake
Head out
Who wants to go to Fire Lake
And head out
Who wants to go to Fire Lake
Head out
Out to Fire Lake
Who's gonna do it
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21 |
KBMOG wrote, If, as was stated earlier there were 782 M3W's produced in 2013 and also a number produced up to 2013 then there are likely to be over 800 that would be eligible for a recall. If each one takes almost a day to rectify, based on 250 working days a year this would amount to over 3 years to put right. MMC would not be able to cope with this and if they leave the responsibility of the repairs to dealers we are then into the question of how good are the welders that the dealers would be using. I can stick lumps of metal together with a welder but I would not like to rely on my welds for my safety or that of my passengers. This repair should only be carried out by suitably qualified welders. I only hope that the guy that repaired mine at the factory is suitably qualified!! I don't know if repairs are enough to fix the 2012/2013 chassis out there. MMC totally replaced my 2012 chassis and from what I saw of the original stock unit and what the new replacement is there are just too many changes. Everything from the front of the body frame forward has been beefed up, strengthened with added gussets and very possibly tube wall thickness.
It's your basic total rebuild. I believe qualified welders would be good to go with a complete manual with regard to specification changes. Anything less is a hope and by golly... KBMOG & Michael H - Both excellent, interesting posts. Clear, concise and informative
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 167
L - Learner Plates On
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L - Learner Plates On
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 167 |
If these lower wishbone mounts were to be welded in at the dealers, surely Morgan will be using some form of jig which each dealer would require. Suspension alignment checks for castor and camber after.
If the cracks are appearing in the chassis uprights just above the lower wishbone mounts, as it appears in the photographs, surely a new chassis is needed, or are they welding in new uprights?
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 167
L - Learner Plates On
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L - Learner Plates On
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 167 |
My other long term concern is corrosion, as I believe the chassis at the production stage is dipped, if Morgan are just spraying a coat of paint on after welding, there will be no protection against corrosion inside the tubing.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21 |
My other long term concern is corrosion, as I believe the chassis at the production stage is dipped, if Morgan are just spraying a coat of paint on after welding, there will be no protection against corrosion inside the tubing. Good question... More issues to consider
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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