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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363 |
Quoting Chris99
"A bad batch of tubing, a different welder, human error, problems in the chassis coating process, mishandling of the chassis during assembly, pothole damage etc".
All of these variables should not be of concern to us as the end users. The design should be robust enough to cope with these.
Also quoting Chris99
"What is correct is that MMC have reacted quickly to design and install a mod to affected cars".
I think that is the least they could have done.
But even MMC are not sure if this will be an effective cure to the cracking problem, and as I stated previously, cannot guarantee this latest repair against further breakage.
It is not very reassuring to know that it could possibly break again, particulary when travelling at high speed, or on a bad road surface, and to have this on your mind tends to detract from the pleasure of driving these machines
There are enough hazards on the road in dealing with other motorists, let alone taking your own hazard with you.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,790 Likes: 471
Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,790 Likes: 471 |
Assuming that this new lower wishbone bracket is a long term fix, if I had to deal with it, I would
(1) Contract in 5 coded welders and 5 vehicle fitters to deal specifically with this issue and allocate sufficient space for 5 vehicles to be worked on at a time, assuming that all their production staff are currently tied up.
(2) They would work in pairs with the vehicle fitter stripping parts off ready for the fabricator to grind the old brackets off and the weld the new ones on and then the vehicle fitter putting it back together.
(3) Assuming that each pair can complete a vehicle in a day (which seems generous to me) they would re-work everything pre 2014 in 32 weeks. If this work was carried out through the winter it would have negligible impact on the owners - other than the nutters who drive all year round.
(4) Incremental cost of doing this assuming that owners cover logistic costs would be
10 people x £15/hr x 40 hours per week x 32 weeks = £192,000 plus the cost of brackets, so call it circa £200,000.
(5) Last published accounts (for 2017) showed over £3m in the bank.
In conclusion - not damaging to them financially, takes away the statistical uncertainty as to whether this issue will always be progressive in nature or some will fail rapidly, ensures they maintain their reputation, no company directors end up in court, owners can drive without the niggling doubt that they may head off into the trees if it fails rapidly - all of course as long as this is a final solution.
An outstanding incisive post.
2009 4/4 Henrietta
1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 605 Likes: 4
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 605 Likes: 4 |
Did my pre-drive checks and had a lovely drive in my M3W today which reminded me why I bought it. Got up early, no cars about cool early morning air but sun coming out - fantastic.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21 |
Assuming that this new lower wishbone bracket is a long term fix, if I had to deal with it, I would
(1) Contract in 5 coded welders and 5 vehicle fitters to deal specifically with this issue and allocate sufficient space for 5 vehicles to be worked on at a time, assuming that all their production staff are currently tied up.
(2) They would work in pairs with the vehicle fitter stripping parts off ready for the fabricator to grind the old brackets off and the weld the new ones on and then the vehicle fitter putting it back together.
(3) Assuming that each pair can complete a vehicle in a day (which seems generous to me) they would re-work everything pre 2014 in 32 weeks. If this work was carried out through the winter it would have negligible impact on the owners - other than the nutters who drive all year round.
(4) Incremental cost of doing this assuming that owners cover logistic costs would be
10 people x £15/hr x 40 hours per week x 32 weeks = £192,000 plus the cost of brackets, so call it circa £200,000.
(5) Last published accounts (for 2017) showed over £3m in the bank.
In conclusion - not damaging to them financially, takes away the statistical uncertainty as to whether this issue will always be progressive in nature or some will fail rapidly, ensures they maintain their reputation, no company directors end up in court, owners can drive without the niggling doubt that they may head off into the trees if it fails rapidly - all of course as long as this is a final solution.
I love the smell of common sense in the morning.... 
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,336 Likes: 150
miles of smiles Talk Morgan Expert
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miles of smiles Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,336 Likes: 150 |
It’s not ideal, but it seems then, that for less money than many spend on upgrading exhausts etc. an owner could organise the modification themselves.
I’m spoiled for choice with skilled welders where I live and the dismantling/ reassembly work doesn’t seem too bad. For me, it would cost a fair bit just to get it to my nearest dealer anyway.
Another less invasive way of monitoring the condition of the area would be crack detection spray. These are usually sold in sets of three, a cleaner, a dye and and developer. This would show any defect at a very early stage without too much fiddling about.
I feel for any owners worrying about it, you need to have confidence is the safety of the car to fully enjoy it. The slight consolation is, the car will also always be valuable, unforeseen expense can at least be offset by minimal depreciation.
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,001 Likes: 23
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,001 Likes: 23 |
Crack detector can only be used on bare metal.
In order to use it you'd need to remove the paint from the relevant area and leave it exposed. Not ideal.
I'd wager that most, if not all cars, of the same design will eventually crack.
The most sensible option, if you have a car in the affected category, is to have the modification carried out irrespective of whether you have visible cracks or not.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,562
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,562 |
Crack detector can only be used on bare metal.
In order to use it you'd need to remove the paint from the relevant area and leave it exposed. Not ideal.
I'd wager that most, if not all cars, of the same design will eventually crack.
The most sensible option, if you have a car in the affected category, is to have the modification carried out irrespective of whether you have visible cracks or not.
Totally agree , and that is why Morgan should be lead this and be public and visible in their actions
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,213
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,213 |
I can't see the point of reinforcing this area on early cars with the original chassis . Even with the additional bolt in braces they are continuing to break in the other known weak areas .
Surely a complete new chassis is the only sensible long term answer .
Hugh
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363 |
Let's get real here shall we!
It should not be necessary to carry out crack detection testing (even if it were possible), every time before we take the cars out on the road.
How many other cars do you have to do this with, let alone one costing as much as we paid for ours?
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 363 |
Quoting Chris99
"A bad batch of tubing, a different welder, human error, problems in the chassis coating process, mishandling of the chassis during assembly, pothole damage etc".
Try telling that to the widow of someone killed because their front suspension collapsed!
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