Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Investment value of "classic" vehicles..?

As a self confessed petrol head of the baby boomer generation and tend not to be inclined towards adopting the idea of following some sort of "faith" relative to any particular vehicular marque or much else. I have been a bit of a carsonova in my time and may have been more so, had my funds not been as limited as they were over many years. You may well ask what has that to do with the value of cars as an investment...perhaps not much other than I have been in and around automotive evaluation for quite a while on a very non-professional basis (-:

Just so happens I attended the recent Scottish Transport Extravaganza at Glamis Castle, a quite wonderful collection of everything from stationary engines through to supercars amongst the 1800 or so entrants, and it seemed to me that a great many owners were..err..mature, the majority perhaps even of my generation, which caused me to wonder about the much touted investment potential of such machinery in advertising plus the possible amount of "man maths" that may have become very involved in so many recreational vehicle purchases over the years...?

I have no qualifications in economics, so anything I type is to be taken with a pinch of salt... (-: If my observations at Glamis were in any way reasonable then it seems just possible that as us older codgers slip off our perches, that the young perhaps deprived of reasonable job contracts, house buying opportunities and unlikely to be bought out of their jobs with golden handshakes and then into a reasonable pension situation... might just not be able to follow in our footsteps as we might hope..?

If I further consider that baby boomers and the like ever had dreams of Morgan Porsche Ferrari ownership and the like it seems logical (?) that in time as funds became available then the opportunity to acquire such a vehicle would be grabbed with both hands... I have no real idea of what the mid 20`s age group ever had as pics on their walls or perhaps I should be thinking of whatever image they have preserved on the front of their phone... whatever... but I suspect it might not be of some vehicle that is much older than them...? Sure there will be some youngsters who appreciate the finer things in life.... but how many...hmm..?

I am not a numbers thinker by nature, but looking at some car adverts for "classic" cars and what seems like not a lot of movement for some seemingly desirable machinery, I do wonder if the shine has come off the investment potential thinking...? Brexit is bound to play a part in the mindset of many and if statistics are correct then circa 50% of the population should be confident to keep on spending if they voted for it...but perhaps that is not the case..hmm..?

Another rather obvious thought was the seemingly exponential growth in publicity relative to save the planet issues and how they will affect the investment value of "Classic" cars...?

My thinking is that it might be best to enjoy "classic" cars while you can, as they may become far less valued by the "market" and perhaps sooner than we might think, as I suspect there may be a limited market for garage queens (no insult intended) as seems may be a logical evolutionary ownership path for most fossil fuel burning machinery...?

Would be more than happy to read any alternative thinking..

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that cars are to be driven, I'd pay more for a well used and looked after Aeromax than one that had spent 18 years in a "collection".
I also agree that the value of "classics" is market driven, most of the cars have little intrinsic value.
So, with a change in generational attitudes it is very possible that classic cars will fall in value.
This phenomena is the norm in the antiques market, where some styles suddenly become of great value, others fall away.

There can't be two guys with that prose style - is that you, George? And if so, how's life? Still got the +8?

And in response to your musings, Yes, the classic car market is pretty much doomed I reckon. Once the Brexit recession hits, Governments of whatever kidney are going to be scratching around looking for any and all opportunities to get revenue, and CGT on cars is such an obvious hit now that cars are widely seen as deeply anti-social.

So:
- It won't be a good investment vehicle
- There won't be the purchasers given that young people aren't interested at best and view them extremely negatively at worst
- They are likely to be legislated off the road within the next 20 years or so
- Nobody's going to have any money anyway

Yep, enjoy them while you can.

Yes the weather was very nice there on Sunday and I got a good few bargains in the Auto Jumble and engine oil for £1 per litre from the local motor factor who had a stand there.

The vast majority of the pre 1990 classic owners were all well into their state pension age.

On the area above there, the post 1990 classics had plenty of younger owners.

I have never had any idea why someone wants a car that stays in the garage and is only let out for shows if it is not raining.

I would think around 2025 to 2030 it will be start to be considered socially iffy to drive an internal combustion engine car.

From what I can see, very few young people buy older cars and do them up, rather they just accept that you pay PCP on a car and hand it back at the end of the term just as you renew your phone when something else is available.

I am of the “ it’s a car so drive it” attitude.
We were at Scolton Manor classic day last month. Most cars were classic in the sense of being old. 1960’s on. I think these are the ones that will lose out. There are few classics that will be investment goodies. Mainly certain top marques or cars with a significant provenance.
Investment in classics is a big gamble, especially with the current hate trend for ICE vehicles gathering momentum.
No doubt the politicians will get it wrong.

I'm not sure the outlook is so gloomy. Most drivers won't have the means to buy an electric or hybrid car for years.

Old electric/hybrids don't look like a good bet.

Road transport looks like staying diesel or maybe hybrid for a long time. If hauliers invest in hybrid trucks the consumer pays.

They never legislated horses off the road, and any 'thin end of a wedge' will not know where to stop.

I can see ICE ownership getting much more expensive, but in the fifteen/twenty years I hope to have left driving, I don't expect a radical change. Gradual yes.

Classic car values are superheated now and inevitably will fall and once the panic sets in, will fall rapidly.

IMHO, There is a continuing delay in older codgers “shuffling off”, so the next generation are having to wait for their money. A lot of it will be spent on dementia care, until this is shown to be ecologically unsound, caring-fatigue really sets in, and euthanasia becomes more fashionable. But families have never been so well off, so although there is a current hiatus, there could well be a resurgence in interest and investment in old cars, perhaps in about 20 years. And for as long as Eton school runs the country, they won’t outlaw the use of their investment collections, so we needn’t worry about outlawing petrol cars. Not so sure about diesels, but then they’re not really classics. Mind you, the league against cruel sports hasn’t got much to do these days, perhaps they’ll start on about cars next. We could end up being chased down the road by a crowd wearing sandals?
Just a ramble, I am not busy this afternoon

It would seem that there is a broad agreement here: "investment classics" are likely to be a bad investment, but that it will be possible to drive Classics" for as long as we are willing to pay the taxes.
Already in some countries in Europe a classic is prohibited from motorways and is limited to a few thousand km a year. This could happen hers, in the guise of "road safety and pollution".

As to, Morgans, they increasingly blur the distinction between a true classic and a modern car. Both my kids, 30 and 33, would take the Plus 8 in a heartbeat: we have bred 2 petrolhead: my son has a Focus ST, heavily modified and a Mazda 6 as a work car. Why? He loves driving.
But my nephews are totally uninterested in cars, they view them as another means of transport. One of them, now with wife and 2 kids, is angry that having moved from Wimbledon to Purley they have found it essential to buy a car: they have discovered that public transport and small kids isn't convenient or very nice. Perhaps he is growing up.

Cars are evolving: the new Mini E looks promising, I'll probably drive one: Will I buy one? I doubt it: we don't need 3 cars with between 300 and 400 bhp each, but we want them.

The only metal I invest in is Golden in colour also Krugerrands, the rust coloured one's are sheer folly as history proves time and again, they are at ridiculously high levels at the moment and a lot of people are going to catch flu in a year or so when it all comes crashing down to reality.

I amortise my toy cars over 4 years and anything left at the end is a bonus, nobody gets a shock that way and you don't put yourself at financial risk. As it happens my present one has gained 5k in 5 years if the present market is to be believed.

Essentially the cost of enjoyment is priceless when you consider our length of run time on earth - so now is the time to get out and buy that Plus 6 if you are tempted I might do just that once it sounds like a proper car and the early adopters have finalised MMC's road testing for them in a couple of years or so.

Interesting though that there are several older mogs for sale at the moment, some as low as £12T. Some have been on market for ages.
When I was first looking at used ones all those years ago I could never get there before they had sold. There just weren't any available.
I think it's changed alot in the last year.
Nick