Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 replacing the harley compensator on a 2012 m3w ?

First of all a big thank you to this forum, without the many information about harley and centa compensators and motor expansion, I probably would not have started this project.

My 2012 M3W generates a lot of terrible noise while driving.

It sounds like a Ducati dry clutch, but even louder when not under load.
Because of that I was afraid that there will be a serious issue and before destroying something in th drive train
I decided to remove the engine and have a look to the reason for that noise.

Removing the engine is another story (may be I will post some more pictures about that later )
At the end it tooks me aroud 7h of slow comfortable work and the V2 including drive train until the clutch was out of the chassis.



Removing the clutch and flywheel mounting was done in 30 min, afterwards it looks like this:



In the picture above we see the rubber 'Jurid' Coupling (part nr. 20 from part-book V5.2 page 16), btw. a BMW OEM part
(maybe another contribution to the alternate parts list ? ) BMW part Number: 26117518443

This is , behind the compensator, another torsional vibration damping element in the drive train.
Btw. its original mounted in BMW's from 325 upwards to to 760i (444hp) so that I would expect that it should be durable for the 115hp from the S&s too.

looks like new after 7 Years und 8500km in my 3w :



Next I removed the compensator plate (part Nr. 16 from part-book V5.2 page 16) and found the 38mm Nut (part nr.15) , which fixes the compensator to the crankshaft and will tension the compensator spring (part. nr 1) only slightly tightened (would expect here a high torque for fixing instead the aprox. 50Nm I found) - may be thats a reason for the noise - the spring wasn't tensioned enough ???
Here the 'heavy tool set' I used wasn't really necessary, the nut was, as mentioned above, very loose tightened...




Afterwards it's possible to remove the complete compensator from the housing.

Picture of the compensator itself:



and the compensator bearing what seems to also damaged:




So at the end , the question raised: what to do ?

I see 3 (1/2) possible solutions:

1.) keep it as it is, tighten the 38mm NUT with higher torque und hope that will solve the problem ... (if not I will bite the carpet and have to do the whole procedure again)

2.) upgrading to centa coupling kit, my german dealer requests around 1700€ (only parts) for the complete kit (part nr. 19 + 1,2,3 + 11,12,13 page 17 part book V5.2) .
A bunch of money for a solution what also seems not to be bullet proof ...

Does it makes sense to ask the dealership in .uk for better prices ?

3.) bridge the harley compensator by wielding together part 9 and part 4 to get an fixed connection from the crankshaft to the rubber coupling (part 20) .
In that case all the torsion damping will be done by the rubber coupling, but what is durable for a 444hp BWM should be also sufficent here ...

btw. that would be close to the solution from Krazy Horse I saw here somewhere, only keeping the original compensator (and it's mass)

3.1/2 solution as 3. but shorten the compensator housing (part 4) and using two of the rubber couplings 'in row' .. some more effort , but it would double the damping

Any comments are welcome ;-)

Thorsten

Good photos of the problem.

How many miles on this original part?

It would seem to me that if those parts were replaced by something better (maybe better) then that would be my path. That big high torque thumping engine puts torque pulses through the entire drive train and anything that dampens those pulses is a good thing.

if I trust the Odometer : 8500km



that was also my first idea - but , the centa coupling upgrade has also issues - so spending 1,7k€ for switching from one problem to the next?
At the end the centa solution (damping torque peaks using rubber elements) is very close my version 3 .

Centa compensator parts cost GBP 695 + VAT June 2017. Morgan fitted mine at no labour cost when car being rebuilt with new chassis, I paid only parts cost. You could consider the Phil Bleazley compensator mod.

Much cheaper parts from English based dealers I think. I also thinkyour version 3 will produce gear hammer at idle speeds. look here for other ideas www.bleazey.co.uk
good luck,
Phil

695 GBP + 20% VAT corresponds to around 915 € and not 1700€ as requested by my dealer :-( .

Another thing is - what do we mean when talking about the Centa Upgrade Kit.

Looking to the M3W opart book V5.2 page 17 , the parts 1,2,3 + 11,12,13 doesn't belong to the kit and should cost around 250€ (included in the 1700€)

However I'm afraid the part cost they will bill directly at MMC may differ from the dealer prices ...

I still waiting for an offer from Krazy Horse ...

KH will be interesting to see what they charge for their compensator.

hope so, waiting for an offer ...



exactly, and I'm relativly sure about the reasons of that - I will post some more pictures.
Think that is exactly the problem you are describing at your webpage.



of course I know your very interesting webpage !

And when moving to to centa coupling I will also add your upgrade kit ...

Thorsten

Only to avoid misunderstandings - I was asking at KH the price for the MMC Centa coupling kit ...

I've had the Centa unit now for almost 26,000 miles. We checked it two years ago during the chassis rebuild and all was well. The rubber inserts were replaced but I now possess the originals and they are just fine. I am a strict follower of the keeping the revs up where they belong. In my world anything below 3,000 rpm is lugging the motor and that is what will kill the compensator faster than anything else. The H-D design was never up to the forces this S&S puts out.

The Centa is a marine grade coupling that would be quite reliable for pumps and generators which are used at a constant rpm with few deviations.

If we could have had an 8 speed tranny to help fill in the gaps on the power curves that would have been fine but very busy...