Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing 4/4 Wheel sizes

Hello I have a 1992 4/4 that I have had for about 4 months now. It seems that it was originally ordered from the factory with the wider wirs wheels off the +4 and is fitted with the 195 tyres. when I bought the car I wasn't told this and as its my first Morgan assumed the heavy steering was all like that on Morgans and I would get used to it, however I do find the steering very heavy and doesn't have much feel to it. Since finding out about its wider wheels I now wonder if I should think about changing them to the standard 4/4 wheels with the 165 tyres, however reading the paperwork and what I have read it also has the wider body so smaller wheels may look silly. Can I have some views on this please.

I would add that I have been driving classics for years so used to none power steering and find modern cars too light, my last classic was a 1500 Midget which actually came fitted with wide alloys which also was heavy and had no feel so swapping back to the original Rostyles and thinner 155 tyres made the handing great and far more fun. Also before its suggested I would add that the steering is very light with the font end jacked up as I can easily spin the steering wheel with one finger so its not stiff and is well greased up..

It also came fitted with a smaller 14" wheel which was warped and badly cracked where bolted to the boss, so I swapped it for a 15" one which has made a slight improvement but nothing to the feel . Your views would be appreciated.

many thanks.

You might try checking the front tracking. My steering was quite heavy, and turn-in ponderous, until I discovered I had too much toe-in. Try running the tracking at zero toe-in (ie parallel).

Hi Ken, welcome to Talk Morgan.

Sounds like you might have what is known as the 4/4 Lowline.

In fact it has nothing to do with being lower but looks lower because it has the wider wings and wider wheels and tyres. (Optical Illusion)

The standard 165 tyres will certainly feel a lot lighter and many people feel that the handling on the 165's with the 4/4 is better and more responsive although of course the 195's will have more ultimate grip at the limits of adhesion.

You will have to be very careful with the wheel offset and I don't think you could simply fit the standard 4/4 wheels as they would foul on the inside of the wheel arch.

You could get Motor Wheel Services to make up a set of wheels to the correct offset but it's not going to be cheap especially if you want stainless wires. Wouldn't harm to have a chat with them though.

I suspect they will look a bit strange with the Lowline Body and you might be better considering a retrofit power steering setup if the you really find the current setup too heavy.

If you do change to 165's, don't fit the Conti tyres, there are several threads in here debating the best tyres and one thing just about everyone agrees on is that the Conti's are the worst option.

Thanks Bob, lot's to think about, I will try Griffo's suggestion of tracking first to see if improves it slightly. I am no wimp but it takes a lot of effort say turning tight left on the local roads.
These tyres do rub slightly on the inner front wings at the front edge. The rear ones seems to fill the arches and is only about 1/4" away from the exhaust which I need to get looked at
Don't want to go down the power steering route.
Thanks again. Ken

Bob, forgot to say not that new to the forum as posted a few weeks ago about a clutch problem. For some reason my user name wouldn't log in or anything so had to set up a new one slightly different. Ken

Ken. I suspect that given the age of your car that you may have a combination of problems. Certainly toe in is to be checked but you may also have kingpins that need grease or you may even have a car that has been fitted with one of the alternative bush materials that have been known to give problems.

Also you may still have the damper blades instead of the more modern bearings.

The front suspension and the stiffness of the steering can be vastly improved with the fitting of hardchromed kingpins and new bushes, steering bearings, and the correct springs. It should be noted that at static ride height the lower, rebound, spring should be just kissing the bottom of the stub axle so that it can be turned by hand. All of this makes a huge difference to the steering forces required.

I also run a fractionally higher tyre pressure than that recommended by Morgan. In a Morgan the comfort of the ride is also dependent on tyre pressure and too much will lighten the steering but may have handling and ride comfort repercussions.

As can be seen from my signature I have opted to fit the SSL ( http://www.suspensionsupplies.co.uk/ ) front suspension kit which includes adjustable pre-load rising rate springs and an excellent set of dampers. I found that fitting this kit not only gave me the comfort and handling that I dered but also considerably lightened the steering. It is still a little heavy at parking speeds but even there it is greatly improved.

I am running Michelin CrossClimate 195/65 R15 tyres.

Hi Ken,
I have MWS stainless on my 4/4 with Blockley tyres - they did me a good deal on the wheels & the tyres as a set. When you decide on sizes etc. pop round & have a look at mine.

Just a thought whilst reading this, is that after all the checks, if the steering is still heavy and lifeless, you could think about changing just the front wheels to narrower rims and 165's, using the correct offset and assuming they weren't too recessed into the wings, leaving your standard 195's on the back.

This would save some money and leave the rears to fill the arches. The trouble is, you would need to borrow a couple of 4/4 wheels to try, otherwise you won't know if it is successful or not. Maybe your local dealer would help with a loan?

Thanks for the replies, seems there is wear in the kingpins so need to get them sorted first, I need to do some research on what's the best kit to go for.

Hard chromed king pins and bronze spiral grooved bushes