Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) The Plus Six 'bugs me'

Yes on the ML you can feel the pedal drop/raise when the electronic parking brake is applied, removed.

We all know the rule. Every time I make it more fool-proof they seem to find a better fool. More bleach for the gene pool please.

With or without, that driver could not stop in that distance.He woke up too late.
My point is that there's a belief abs reduces stopping distances which it doesn't. It enables steering which is it's great safety benefit. There is no manufacturer who claims abs reduces stopping distances. On the contrary, it is freely admitted that on a less than perfect surface abs can considerably increase stopping distances. Which is why you can turn it off in off road vehicles.
So the presentation of that video as some sort of endorsement of abs encourages the dangerous belief that abs will help us out in situations such as the one on the video.
What I'm claiming is easily confirmed by any investigation, even on wikipedia!
Anyway, I'm going to stop going on about it now
Nick[/quote
I strongly disagree. Being a norwegian citizen and having had my license since 1968, I have considerable experience driving car with and without ABS, on snow, ice, slush and the worst of all - wet ice. ABS prevents locking the road wheels. As long as your wheels are rotating while braking, you have some sort of control, the moment you lock them you have none. When I took my drivers education in the pre-ABS era, I was told to "pulse-brake" in emergency situations, never slam the brakes. Pulse-braking was pressing the pedal just until the wheels locked, then lifting your foot so the wheels unlocked, press - lift - press - lift etc. Just what the ABS does. If you pulse-brake or brake super gently you might avoid activation of the ABS, but if you need harsh or panic braking, ABS is very important. If somebody wants to challenge me, I will be glad to participate. Let us find a little downhill slope with wet ice, go down with some speed and panic brake at the bottom. Two equal cars, one with ABS deactivated and the other (which I clearly will prefer to drive....) with ABS, then measuring the stopping distances. I will gladly donate my Morgan to the winner.

Based on the 100 metre long straight skid marks on the road before the impact with the street light when my son crashed my car soon after he got his licence I think ABS might have saved it from the accident.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly62FoZH_Dc shows 4 stops,

1, ABS
2, No ABS Panic braking at same speed takes longer
3, ABS at slower speed
4, Threshold braking at the same speed as 3 take less distance than 3.

So yes confirms with Nick that yes you can stop quicker without ABS if you use threshold braking, but why did the guy demonstrate it at a slower speed? My view is probably because the higher the speed the harder it is to do threshold braking so he wanted less risk.

On a driver training course with a skid pan run for newly licensed drivers we had to change lanes between two rows on cones and then come to an emergency stop, the instructor said no way will the old RWD non ABS convertible do it but some how I did it and my son and no-one else did even though they were in modern FWD cars with ABS and probably other stability control. But I bet the only car badly damaged soon after was the old RWD non ABS convertible driven by a then over confident 17 year old

I used to race Mountain bikes on pretty hairy tracks and still ride a lot, I think on the bike I have pretty good skill at threshold braking either front or rear brake individually or both together depending on what I am doing, or just feathering the rear brake gently to get the bike to track a steep sharp corner much tighter, but like the skid pan I am prepared for danger and ready for it. In a car on the street the dangers come fro many direction and the speeds are faster and I am sure even after years of practicing threshold or pulse braking I would panic brake just like the second stop in the video.

I agree that poor Plus 4 was doomed because the driver reacted much too late regardless of the brakes, I also agree in a controlled situation it is possible to stop quicker, but unlike Nick I would chose the ABS equipped car any time if it was an option.

Sorry to read of your sons accident, I trust he learned something all be it at a rather high cost... I quite fancied myself as a m/cycle rider and car driver at onetime, but the aging process is just bound to have a measure of reduction in ability..and there are definite advantages to modern driver aides for old duffers like me, though as ever it seems there can be disadvantages too...hmm..?

When I was 16, I thought my dad a fool, by the time I was 21, I was amazed by how much HE had learned in five years..

I still think this is the best illustration.

The tyre tread on the OFF situation seem suspiciously different... FANTASTIC pic, thanks for posting it Alistair..

Very funny, love it

"I agree that poor Plus 4 was doomed because the driver reacted much too late regardless of the brakes, I also agree in a controlled situation it is possible to stop quicker, but unlike Nick I would chose the ABS equipped car any time if it was an option."

I agree with you. I didn't say I wouldn't choose abs if available, just that it's a false (and dangerous) belief that abs stops you quicker. I agree that abs is safer, because it allows steering, which, in most cases, is enormously desireable. It's just that it's steering power, not braking power that makes it safer.
Nick

After the panel beaters fixed it the car was returned with a stuffed engine, not happy but I ended up rebuilding it at great expense to me.

So he did learn something and he ended up with a job as a motor mechanic. He went for a job interview for an apprenticeship with Toyota and was told you are polite, nice young man but because the school you went to doesn't do work experience we would rather someone who has done work experience. As far as I can tell work experience at a dealership means sweeping the floor for a week. I told him to send an e-mail saying thanks for the interview and include some photos of us rebuilding the Nissan engine together. He then got the job and finished his apprenticeship end of last year.



Would it be fair to say that everyone currently with a Trad Morgan would have been just as happy to buy it if it came with ABS?