Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) The Plus Six 'bugs me'

Agree Jon, the Sales guy also made the same point, conquest customers are good for Morgan.

I like ABS and am sure it has saved me a few times from stupid Kangaroos on roads with a bit of snow or ice. Seeing we hardly ever get ice of snow here when we do it is scary and unexpected. All my cars are non ABS, but all my wife's have had ABS and they certainly stop better in an emergency. Given the choice I would take it but would I buy a Mazda MX5 instead of a Morgan Plus 4 just because it has ABS? Probably not but the fact the +4 is 3 times the cost with no safety features at all certainly makes it a hard sell to the household finance controller who sees both as just another 2 seat uncomfortable convertible toy like every other car her husband has owned.

I hate automatic gearboxes but a CX chassis with a smaller engine and manual gearbox could be something I would really like.

Does the Plus 6 body use wheel arches formed in this?



If so does that help it keep the tradition and therefore make it a real Morgan? Also does the jig then become a bottle neck that will limit the number of CX and Trad Morgans that can be made in total?

I think yes
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4r471nfh6aa5x9/IMG_5944.jpg?dl=0

With or without, that driver could not stop in that distance.He woke up too late.
My point is that there's a belief abs reduces stopping distances which it doesn't. It enables steering which is it's great safety benefit. There is no manufacturer who claims abs reduces stopping distances. On the contrary, it is freely admitted that on a less than perfect surface abs can considerably increase stopping distances. Which is why you can turn it off in off road vehicles.
So the presentation of that video as some sort of endorsement of abs encourages the dangerous belief that abs will help us out in situations such as the one on the video.
What I'm claiming is easily confirmed by any investigation, even on wikipedia!
Anyway, I'm going to stop going on about it now
Nick

Re the jig, it would be very simple to produce more jigs like the originals, or indeed a modern hydraulic alternative to speed up production. I'm sure MMC only keep them in public view because it upholds the tradition and is a fantastic public relations tool. They could "hide" the new ones through the back where the visitors wouldn't see them.

ABS is an automated system that uses the principles of threshold braking and cadence braking, techniques which were once practised by skillful drivers before ABSes were widespread. ABS operates at a much faster rate and more effectively than most drivers could manage. Although ABS generally offers improved vehicle control and decreases stopping distances on dry and some slippery surfaces, on loose gravel or snow-covered surfaces ABS may significantly increase braking distance, while still improving steering control.[2][3][4] Since ABS was introduced in production vehicles, such systems have become increasingly sophisticated and effective. Modern versions may not only prevent wheel lock under braking, but may also alter the front-to-rear brake bias. This latter function, depending on its specific capabilities and implementation, is known variously as electronic brakeforce distribution, traction control system, emergency brake assist, or electronic stability control (ESC).

I remember when the Interceptor fitted Dunlop Maxaret system on the FF which was taken from the system designed for aircraft....

Do you suppose it was this contentious when the factory added a fourth wheel? "Bah! It's not a real Morgan if it has more than three wheels... isn't driven by a chain... has reverse..."

I would and will try to grab a a full hand brake (not easy in a trad ) as well as a foot brake in an emergency as this is more likely to give you four wheel braking. Watch the rally boys they constantly use the handbrake to slow and control the car.

If the pedal doesn't give you four wheel braking then there's something wrong with the system. Using the handbrake in tandem with the hydraulic system in a Morgan won't force the shoes against the rear drums any harder.

Guys, Guys, Guys... Settled down, Holding on to fundamentalist ideals has caused enough trouble in the world, perpetuated by continuous argument for and against whatever...???

My old 1985 Morgan is a fantastic bit of kit to provide a somewhat vintage enough driving experience for ME, given it`s coach built bodywork, suspension design (other than tubular shockers) and build quality are decidedly vintage, however it`s running gear most definitely is NOT, with it`s V8 Engine 5 synchromesh gears, LSD, disc braking system operated by hydraulics and up to the minute radial tyre technology....Electrics by way of alternator, improved battery technology, headlights, indicators.....Best not forget seat belts..? With the benefit of all that technological advance in my Morgan... I think the true vintage guys can rightly thumb their noses at me... (-:

As I have typed elsewhere and perhaps too often, my old +8 is the closest I can get to a vintage driving experience with the sort of performance levels that I PERSONALLY desire, to that end I consider myself most fortunate to have found it in my Morgan.

As for those who need to be Faithful... I ain`t one of them, I come here to discuss, not argue or declare myself an expert on ANYTHING.

The CX format would seem to be a necessary stage in the evolution of Morgan. I remember well JHJ trying to convince Peter that they had to re-jig to take advantage of their wonderful heritage and Peter being somewhat resistant, Charles perhaps less so, when I think of the Superform wings...?

The 4/4 in the Scottish dealership mentioned as perhaps being one of the last available, would seem to have the captured the concept of what an ideal Morgan might be to a more up to date level of more ..err..mature customer desires, with all the toys that attracted my eye... (-:

Today`s more youthful Morgan buyer is likely to hold a whole different set of priorities relative to his/her influences, though I suspect that their EXPECTATIONS may differ greatly from mine. I also suspect they may be a tad less forgiving of the foibles that were perhaps built in to older Morgans or that which occurred in time as the Mog aged.. All the ..lawyers for you... adverts on TV seem to increase the expectations of everything for the young, and self reliance seems to have diminished accordingly..?

While I have a measure of technical ability, my Morgan still displays it`s occasional foible, which also reflects the passage of time in terms of the foibles it has presented on occasion, but then given I wanted a somewhat vintage experience I have little room for complaint... (-: And as far as foibles may affect my old car, I am truly grateful for another aspect of modernity that was unavailable when I swapped toy soldiers for a set of spanners, the interweb.. which is greatly advanced my ability to keep my Mog running given the access to folk on forums and web sites the likes of GoMoG and others to provide almost instant assistance on occasion..(-:

BRAKES..? You have to make your own decisions there... If you think you are not the type to ever look for a way round of a dangerous/emergency situation right right up to the moment of impact, and may be more inclined to try to force the brake pedal through the bulkhead...hmm...? While in that situation have you truly assessed all that might affect your braking over the possible changes in the surface your tyres are and will travel over in the distance available..? I suspect that on.. average.. most folk could do with all the help they can get...?

I wonder if the... average... serious road accident might have been assessed given the police take measurements and have the ability to utilise data in many and varied ways.. hmm...? Perhaps the road transport research laboratory and other technical bodies have got together and decided that on ..average...cars may be safer with ABS installed...I know not..!

Seem to remember there was resistance to fitting and wearing seat belts when they were promoted on the grounds of increasing safety.... Can any of you remember any of the arguments against them, and from a very dull memory I think there there were quite a few from the ridiculous to the reasonable.. We humans are ever arguing, be it climate change, Brexit or what is a trad or non-trad or even what constitutes a REAL Morgan..?

As for grabbing the handbrake to further assist your attempts at stopping... Unless you are using it skilfully to assist in a rapid change in direction, I suspect that the continuous pressure you have already applied to the footbrake will negate any effect of pulling on the lever, and it may just be possible that concentrating on whatever steering you have available may be a better option or at least using your hands arms to brace yourself, having hands and arms flailing about seems less than ideal in the case of an unfortunate collision..?

Just thinking in type as ever and happy to discuss..