Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Reflections on a possible PlusFour

My two pennyworth....

All CX cars will have BMW power plants. I believe the CX chassis was developed specifically to take BMW power units.

I agree, the next car will most probably have the B48 motor and a manual box. It could be a stunning vehicle.

I suspect there will be smaller engined cars, based on the 3 Cylinder B38, possibly one with a hybrid package.

I look forward to a small, light car on the CX chassis.

I'm not going to bet against you Peter

[align:right][/align] Whilst the new cars are likely to be improved in almost all measurable way I think there will be 2 big issues:

The current cars have an old chassis and hence an old feel which is an attraction in many ways. Most of our everyday cars are faster, better handling, more economical than Morgan’s but they are less special to drive. The current feel is unique I suspect the new one will be much better but less special.

In addition the new cars will be far more complex which is not an issue for the first few years but will it be possible to keep a new one running easily in 15 years? Will the current cars be the last car which could be considered a self maintainable classic. I find I like driving my plus4 more than I did when I first bought it. How many other cars are like that.

When it comes to management of fuel injection and ignition I think there will always be the possibility of keeping a car or bike on the road because, if a replacement OEM ECU is not available, it will always be possible to fit an alternative. The problem becomes much more complex when you factor in ABS and traction control, specific electronic instruments etc. When some of these parts are no longer available the car becomes a museum piece. It is in the nature of limited production cars that you can't just go to your nearest breaker yard and pick up a second hand part.

So I agree, it will be very difficult for modern cars and bikes to be still usable as a classic vehicle in 30 years time. By then I will be 103 so probably won't be all that worried about it.

Just idle thoughts Peter, but if the firmware that ECU/BCU's use is saved, which costs virtually nothing, then won't there be a market for specialist companies to offer re-engineered components using future hardware. Even reverse engineering may be possible by then. Either way this would future proof virtually any potential classic car of small or large production.

Does anyone know how much the PlusSix weighs ?

Kerb weight 1075 Kg.

Not a lot.... various figures quoted, but it seems that they are less than 1000kg.
The Aero Chassis Plus 8 was, when I had it weighed, 1240kg with fuel, oil and "car junk" on board.

I agree with the obsolescence issue but wonder if it does really need to be this way. I am going to say that the motor industry is more than happy to ensure that the tin dies so they can sell more. Not deliberate or evil but not really interested in long term eco-liability. They use all the resources and energy to build something then if true eco-honesty was in your heart then you would architect it to be around longer.

I can put a modern SSD disc in a 15 year old computer in 3 minutes. Given the computer industries rate of advancement is around 5 times the car industries (I am making that up a bit) this is quite significant.

I am going to guess a few of us remember the BBC B, Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum as the first massive wave of home computers. Well they were a while back now but the good thing is Moores Law allows modern hardware and computing to emulate them easily. You can go on line and download a MAME (https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10942) which runs as a program in your PC. It is a bit like opening word as an application. Once you are in it you are using a BBC B to all intents. You can now load Galaxians and have fun at 640x256 resolution like you did before you had chin hair.

Apply this to a car. It cannot be that hard. It just requires the motivation and market. You have a decently powered computer and hardened O/S and you run a MAME emulator of the OEM computers in a car. There has to be a market for this in the future. The code is available from the OEM vendors. All they would need to do is say "I am not going to make it anymore and so I make it royalty free and publish it here" It removes legal issues. It permits someone to build a MAME using the original parameters which is vital for the ABS/ESD etc funcitons of the other components.

How else is MadMax going to happen in the future.

Hawki, from my forum I.D. you may guess that I think similarly to you in terms of technological advance relative to adding complexity to management of vehicular systems..?

I ever prioritised self reliance when it came to the ability to maintain and repair my recreational vehicle, in fact all my vehicles right up till the time when digitisation made inroads in a way that restricted access to aspects of it`s fuelling system`s operation and control, and that was many years ago... I stuck with fuel injection right up to K Jetronic, but after that threw the towel in and re-set my priorities for a fun car for the reasons similar to those you suggest. The idea of breaking down or failing to start as the result of who knows what, certainly held no appeal.

I remember perhaps in the 70`s when what were up till then simple fixings on engines etc. began to appear requiring "special" tools to fit them. These fixings created in the manufacturers hope that it would restrict the DIY brigade from performing their own maintenance. I suspect when EFI initially appeared, the manufacturers could not believe their luck in the increased ability it provided to restrict DIY access..

Admittedly gone are the days when the only way to interrogate a digital system was through a main dealer only held software/hardware system. Things moved on a tad with OBDII connectivity and hand held scanners becoming available to the general DIY brigade allowing a means of interrogating the software for fault codes generated as the result of hardware issues. In time Digital systems moved on to then more up to date kit whereby fault codes can be reset or values on some hardware changed through DIY software interfaces and even with the push of a button jump over to a different software programme for performance as opposed to economy or whatever other priorities may be desired...? Yup all very clever indeed... and extremely efficient, until it fails to start, or run reasonably as the result of perhaps just one corroded connection in a wiring harness made up of just how many connections..????

Fault codes are wonderful and can point you in the approximate direction, but they can cause confusion too, even for a logical thinker with a sound mechanical grounding on the basics of an internal combustion engine and much else mechanical that comes together to create a vehicle.... A store full of expensive spares that can be swapped about has oft times been used to determine the source of a fault in the real world of repairing machinery today.

Then of course we come up against obsolescence, and in systems digital... that can come about much more rapidly than ever before, but with a bit of luck you might be able to rip out the old system perhaps even using some of the harness to connect up a new series of sensors to the latest type of ECU...Assuming the machine in question is worth the expense or bother...?

Given any of the above is it any wonder that few folk are hands on with their Morgans as the average Morganeer of the past, sure there will always be those who will enjoy messing with the digital variables and modern mechanicals... even the odd Baby Boomer, but they will become fewer by the day.... call it a mix of technological evolution and expected human lifespan..(-:

Putting all the technological advance to one side it does seem that although a CX Morgan is so very different to a TRAD, it is still a Morgan, perhaps just as a M3W is still a TRIKE, and also very different from the original machine in terms of the technology involved..?

If you read my earlier ramble on this thread, I suspect my conclusion was that a CX Morgan is a wonderful machine and as different to it`s sports car counterparts today as my carb fed +8 Morgan was when it was new in the mid 80`s... Thus that essence which is that a Morgan may still be so very different, seems to still exist in spades...? Just that the number of dirty finger-nailed spanner wielding Morganeers will have all but died out.

Jeez I suspect it may be possible for a "mechanic" to serve an apprenticeship never having seen an engine taken apart and repaired other than in Technical college...? Sealed for life everything equates to unit replacement to the extent that "technicians" replace ever larger units with little understanding of the operation of the units internals, be that circuit boards, or gear boxes... it is a whole brave new world out there...?

As Gambalunga (Peter) typed, gone are the days of those like me were crawling under old cars in the oil polluted mud of scrap yards stripping parts off wrecked cars to keep our old cars on the road, though I do think that there will be a variation of that for digital kit of all types on fleabay etc.etc.

Long term, I think the internal combustion engine has had it`s day, and IF the future is electric, then hopefully the perceptional difference in whatever Morgan exists, will still seem RAW and involving compared to whatever other sports cars might be available at that time...?

ME..? I have no desire for the "sophistication" of a digitally reliant Morgan or the stiffer CX chassis configuration with it`s more compliant suspension and the large number of horses crammed under it`s bonnet, the whole Vintage aspect of what a TRAD Morgan WAS is that which I bought into and enjoyed over a number of years, touring around Southern Europe and here at home. With some selected spares and tools on board I was pretty confident that I would have a good chance of repairing any of the well known "foibles" a Morgan might present.... With flexing chassis, greasing suspension and occasionally loosening nuts and bolts my Morgan`s vintage aspects required a measure of pilot involvement that might be expected of a Vintage car, but it`s Engine, drive train, and electrics and fortunately it`s brakes were far from Vintage.... Though compared to the CX,... well perhaps they are...Evolution is a very important aspect of survival is it not..?

TODAY`s young Morgan buyer may well think that a CX is VERY old school in a similar way as did I some years back when I was younger and thought a Morgan would suit my ideals perfectly at the time..

Just thinking in type....