Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Reflections on a possible PlusFour

I'm perplexed by the desire for absolute maximum possible performance. If you live in a town you're in a traffic jam from the end of your road to wherever you're going.
If you live in the country there's always a horse or a cyclist or a Nissan Micra just around the bend. I can't drive anywhere near as fast as I used to. Roads between me and the next market town have all had speed limits lowered so I can't even get a move on at clear straight b roads. My journey times have increased massively.
For me, the joys of Morgan driving are no longer in speed but in the things that are being phased out. Hard suspension, level cornering, twisting chassis - I really like it when I feel the body twist. My 2014 4/4 is actually less useful than my 1986 one was as it's so low. I used to drive my 86 up fields on days out.....I can't do that in my 2014 model. The seating isn't quite as nice in my modern one, the steering wheel is too far away........
I'm just wondering what on earth has happened......or is it just me......got old. I don't think it is that as the things above are true aren't they?

I'm thinking of going back to a 70s car perhaps.......tell me why not someone....help

Grumpy rainy day Nick

I think your point re enjoying the traditional experience is why it would be mad for Morgan to ONLY make CX based models in the near future. You can have a lower power/cyl/tax CX using a BMW 4cyl turbo to make it more accessible but it would not appeal to the people who want the experience not the power and handling. I did not really get that when I first bought the Aero S2. The trads did not make sense to me as I grew up on GTi's and R5GT Turbos so was all about the whizz, over time I understood.

I think there are places for both, CX Plus4 or what ever they choose to call it and Trad +4 etc. There is a degree of irony around the Trad already having outlasted the Aero which was meant to replace it. 911 and 928/968 anyone. Will the Trad outlast the CX Plus6 or is the Trad really triggers mop so it's cheating. (for those not bought up under the regime of English Humour - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE)

I wonder the same thing. I enjoy tinkering and older cars can be tinkered with, but I also like a car that works unlike a Honda S600 I had years ago that needed 100 hours tinkering to get one hour of use before it broke down with some other issue. I enjoy driving and the older the car the more involving the drive is. But as you say you can't drive fast any more, in town there are speed bumps and lower speed limits everywhere, one road I enjoyed driving on had a 100kph speed limit, the road was resurfaced and had extra wide verges put along it making it much safer but the speed limit was dropped to 80kph. In the country or anywhere near a patch of grass there are potential Kangaroos wanting to write your car off. Last time I renewed my insurance I was informed my city has the highest number of kangaroo accidents in Australia which doesn't surprise me, last night there was three of them in my driveway.

But will a 1970's car bring the fun driving back or are the roads too speed bumped etc. to ever enjoy again regardless.

Last year when I thought I had the finances to almost afford a Morgan but could get an Australian Frontline Abingdon edition style of MGB for similar price with the Omex engine I hired an old MGB just to see what I thought of it. I enjoyed the day and the car kept up with the traffic but a different feel to the one Morgan I had been in or a MX5 or my Nissan. The MGB got to the speed limit but didn't feel fast getting there where the Morgan, MX5 and my car all have enjoyable feeling acceleration. I had fun but I think I enjoy my car more, convertible with hard suspension and level cornering plus the rush of the turbo powered engine.

There is also the environment. If you compare your 2014 4/4 to a car from the 1970s you are probably comparing 50mpg to 25mpg plus that 50mpg is with a catalytic converter meaning a lot less other nasty gases in the air. I would assume the 4/4 with modern fuel injection to probably be a huge improvement regarding air quality. Would anyone actually know what is the difference of stuff that comes out of the exhaust of say a 1970 MGB to a 2014 4/4? I think it would be interesting to know and expect a lot, if not then then go for it otherwise that can be your reason to not go back to a 70's car.

I'm with you on this. But since I don't believe that MMC will continue to build a time machine parallel to the CX, I appreciate my beloved 4/4 more every day!

In addition to the value and fun that the car has meant to me from the beginning, there is a certain emotional value of uniqueness and transience.
Until a year ago it was always that way that I thought a great experience such a 4/4, and if something goes wrong, I just buy a new one (as long as it financially fits).
Those days are over.

If we are going to speculate about a possible 2 litre BMW engined CX car we might as well speculate about the other engine in the BMW modular series. It goes 1.5 litre 3 cylinder, 2.0 litre 4 cylinder, and 3.0 litre 6 cylinder. So far we have seen, and only know for sure that the 3.0 litre 6 cylinder version is being installed in the CX series cars. We can speculate about a 2.0 litre 4 cylinder version but there is nothing to stop them utilisingtthe 1.5 litre 3 cylinder engine as a perfectly valid entry point car to replace the current 4/4.

There is a version of the B38 which offers 100 kW (134 bhp) at 4,400–6,000 rpm and torque of 220 N⋅m (162 lb⋅ft) at 1,250–4,300 rpm.

Note the torque. It is more than the GDI Plus 4 but starts at a little above idle. In the real world that would probably give better acceleration than the current Plus 4 (even after the re-map) so it would give quite satisfying performance.

Of course the B38 is also available as a hybrid version but that is another story.

The Trads meet a particular need and customer demographic.
Regulations may stop MMC from selling new Trade, but they can re-manufacture tired older Trads and sell "as new".
I suspect this will happen, under the Aero Racing Business, at some point as the CX chassis cars move across the product range.

I understand that there are two reasons why the trad is (largely) protected from new regs, the first is the Low Volume Exemption rules and the second is that they normally only apply to new models?

Brian,

if that is so then they can continue. Good news.

That gets them some leeway but there are some regulations that can not be avoided. I am not sure exactly what it was, I think it related to child safety, but some regulation saw the end of the 4 seaters. The other regulations that can not be avoided relate to the ever more strict polution categories, the current being Euro 6d-Temp which became compulsory for all new vehicle registrations from 1 September 2019.

The other little issue which could impact on small volume manufacturers could be the lowering of the number of vehicles that can be manufactured in a year or, for Morgan, the desire to increase the volume of vehicles produced per annum. Some exemptions apply to manufacturers who sell less than 1,000 vehicles per annum in the EU.

PS. The next step in Euro homologation is Euro 6d which will be compulsory for all new vehicle registrations from 1 January 2021

My understanding is that Morgan intend to increase production significantly which would also link into a move to a modern platform which will meet the new regulations. I guess Morgan has to make a choice between moving with the times or becoming increasingly niche. Both directions have risks but given the choice I think they are making the correct one to be sustainable as a business.