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Surely it is s about what is seen. The traditional appearance of the Morgan, broadly will be maintained with new platform cars. I can't think people will not buy because they can't crawl underneath to reminisce about the good old chassis.
It seems logical that the factory would develop a new platform that was capable of being utilized for more than one model. Doesn't' it?
As long as the car drives better and is reliable and looks like a Morgan I am sure people will buy.
Having said that the very big proviso is price! They are dear enough at the minute. Price hikes as has been alluded to......now then!

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This is a watershed moment for MMC and the rest of us , a new era dawns with no more sliding pillars , cart springs , ladder chassis .....wonder what the price of a new plus 4 will be ? shocked2

Edit - £75k potential price of new plus 4 ? shocked2

Last edited by madmax; 01/12/19 09:06 AM.

Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .


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Steve according to KH about 50% more so Roadster territory


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Originally Posted by John V6
Steve according to KH about 50% more so Roadster territory



John , thanks for giving this shocking heads up for all on here , mind you we presumably expected the new chassis to take over at some stage but sooner than expected ?


Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .


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Originally Posted by PHZI
Surely it is s about what is seen. The traditional appearance of the Morgan, broadly will be maintained with new platform cars. I can't think people will not buy because they can't crawl underneath to reminisce about the good old chassis.
It seems logical that the factory would develop a new platform that was capable of being utilized for more than one model. Doesn't' it?
As long as the car drives better and is reliable and looks like a Morgan I am sure people will buy.
Having said that the very big proviso is price! They are dear enough at the minute. Price hikes as has been alluded to......now then!





Given your comments with which I agree, am left wondering if they will offer the entry level four wheeler (4/4) with mininal standard spec in order to allow and advertise a lower "from" price. Their profits would then soar with the needed extras spec'd innocent


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Is the CX wing of the Plus 6 delivered readily or will it be reworked respectively adapted by cutting as it used to be with the Trad model?
If it is the „more modern" solution - at least the car (the Plus 6) and it’s tyres are always of the same dimension - a second defined width of narrower wings could perhaps be delivered to let a possible new 4/4 look more nimble.
With the new chassis this should be possible if everything is assembled less "intuitively" but exact plans are followed instead.

(I like the individual classic car and the „intuitive“ way of building her, but this is exactly one of the differences to the CX which has already been discussed extensively).
At least it would be great to see a new 4/4 with narrower wings and correspondingly narrower tyres. I ask because I don't can imagine an entry-level model with such a broad and not filigree appearance.


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Interesting thinking on the total rebuild division....(-:

I suspect in the realm of Morgan evolutionary processes, the customer base has moved on from beginnings of providing for those in search of cheaper transport, through to later times times when customer improvement of the marque was accepted as norm, the latter seems to have been very much a part of the appeal for many folk given the rudimentary design which encouraged those blessed with a mechanical mindset to think they could improve aspects of the engineering involved..?

I suspect as Morgans have been around for quite some time and were perhaps not built to last forever, that as they aged there would ever be found someone who looked at the method of construction, the materials utilised and thought I can fix that up, and did, the advantage being that there was no state of the art ultra expensive engineering involved as can be found in the likes of Bugatti`s one piece cast wheels with integral brake drums, thus Morgans could be brought back to life relatively cheaply IF you had the necessary skill-set or were prepared to learn, be it woodwork, mechanical or whatever... I suspect given those factors and that the MMC had gained a following due to motor sport involvement, no doubt as an inexpensive entry point that had gained a measure of success over a number of years, would perhaps keep young men busy furteling in their sheds over many a generation..?

Ease of repair, due to simple construction, readily available inexpensive mechanicals from a multitude of sources would seem to guarantee a following. I suspect all the advantages of earlier times diminished to some degree in the 50`s and 60`s as Morgans began to look old fashioned, like some of the "bangers" that were finding their way into scrap yards around that time, but there were ever the stalwart individuals and those in the US who were in search of something "different" from their huge automobiles (?) Fortunately MMC kept going till the late sixties early seventies where it seems a mix of the appearance of disposable income for the man in the street, and a gaining appreciation for old bangers which gave birth to the Classic Press, and as such seemd to have fuelled an entirely different evaluation in the minds of many as to the values that might be in any Morgan...?

The Classic Car era then gaining strength and "investment" thinking playing it`s part would seem to have ensured a degree of popularity would be maintained in the Marque, the owners being a mix of restorers and those whose man maths included a measure of that investment thinking to help justify the purchase of a new Morgan..? With the passage of a little more time we entered the situation where the workplace insecurity included de-layering, down sizing, re-structuring and part of that process included early retirement, and with large numbers of folk leaving employment perhaps with money in their pockets, it seems logical that many would be interested in finding a project to keep them active and challenged , but not too challenged, thus again the rudimentary construction of Morgans held an attraction for those who had some skill or wished to learn skills..? Of course those who appreciated the vintage appearance of a Morgan and the sense of exclusivity associated with the marque remembered there was a time when one had to put their name down to book a build slot, just as some parents might have done to get their kids into a good school... that degree of thought no doubt held sway in marketing terms for some folk long after the waiting time may have reduced considerably..?

A lot of the early retired white/blue collar folk were happy to get their hands dirty pulling things to bits and amongst them were folk who could see room for improvement in the rudimentary design or in the materials used and set about creating their ideal Morgan.. Such was the capability of some of these folks that it seems the MMC adopted those customer improvements into the end product, much of that new thinking I suspect was open to access by the MMC and us as the result of the birth of the WWW and discussion groups like the MSCCDG and eMog, not to forget the influence that the likes of websites such as GoMoG had on those in search of information to assist them in their bid to repair, restore or modify their Morgans...?

I suspect that the mix of folk who have come to own Morgans over the years has perhaps carried the marque through a time where the investment thinking may have increased by some measure as the result of low bank interest rates, which may have played it`s part..? Over the years it seems Morgan have managed to retain the all important essence of what a Morgan is despite the ever evolving demands relating to vehicle safety and emissions which have introduced a level of complexity that is at odds with much that attracted many to the marque over very many years..? Fortunately there are those who are more than happy to go with the flow and equip themselves with a degree of understanding to maintain the level of self sufficiency that was ever the badge proudly worn by many a Morganeer..?

In recent times..? It seems that the M3W may have created a resurgence of interest in the marque, and importantly in the minds of the young in search of a bit of adventurous motoring.. As for the TRAD vs the CX, it seems there will ever be those who may be a tad more fundamentalist in their thinking, not necessarily members of the flat earth society, but value more vintage aspects of coach-building, craftsmanship, heritage etc. etc.etc. and they can find that in many an older Morgan, though much would seem to depend upon mindset vs reality to arrive at a balanced choice..... or have the technical ability/cash available to recreate a Morgan to suit those personal ideals..?

How trad is a TRAD..? I came to Morgan ownership with Vintage ideals as part of the main attraction, but was more than happy with the advantage of disc brakes and performance enough not to be a mobile hazard when in modern traffic situations. Of course there will be those who prefer a more trad TRAD, with smaller engine, drum brakes, Moss box.... but then again there have ever been those in search of MORE and as much of it as they can get... be it more performance by way of handling, brakes, engine power, auto box, softer ride, level of trim, comfort, music system, bling of one kind or another, yup evolution as ever will play a part and I suspect the CX will be a logical next step in that process, though as for the future of the ICE... given the gaining momentum of thinking on pollution in all of it`s many affects, I suspect it is best to be happy to be able to enjoy what you can while you can...?

If the MMC decide that there is a business case for basic restoration through to introducing modern high quality materials while involved in recreating older tired Morgans to a much higher standard than they ever left the factory, I suspect there may well be a customer base out there for that. I suspect the GoMoG web master may have been one of the first to have his Morgan recreated to match ideals of improvements over "standard" production expectations.. And when I see the wonderful craftsmanship involved in recreating early 911 Porsches to incorporate modern engineering capabilities well in excess of the original as Singer have done, boy that would take some shake-up in the MMC`s systems.... Though I guess that may be taking things too far.... BUT..?

http://singervehicledesign.com/

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Originally Posted by sospan
The decision wouldn’t surprise me.
Look at the recent dealer changes. Some old established trad Morgan establishments going from new car sales but keeping on with servicing etc as their option. The new tech requirements are a costly investment coupled with MMC terms for new car build. I wouldn’t be surprised to see sales from the factory coming back, coupled to the new owners’ influence. The M3W recalls recently indicate a significant shift in attitude, when was there a previous recall?
The huge investment in the CX chassis and the deliberate design to accommodate various power plants is another clue. There needs to be a recoup of that cost.
Will the loss of new trads increase values of existing ones? Maybe but who would be attracted to them?
One thing I sincerely hope is for continued spares availability. Possibly some “Special Edition” stock clearance cars to come to market? This has been an industry standard practice for decades.
Price of the smaller engined CX cars is a major factor.
£80k+ for a Plus6 is very high but as a possible flagship top end then understandable. I only hope 4/6 pot versions will not be too high. MMC claims of annual sales targets would need the entry end to be achievable but not easy in today’s economic/eco-push world. An EV is inevitable too.
Just an added edit.......Caterham format for self build of trads?


There is a lot in what you say that I agree with. In particular, as long as MMC continue with the tailor made build approach, there is a lot to be said for factory sales direct to customer with appointed service agents around the UK. After all, may of the new purchasers on here make a point of going to the factory to see their car in build and this is a special part of the experience that the mass manufacturers cant copy.

A rationalisation of the archaic build system is overdue by maybe 60 years so a focus on one chassis makes huge sense. But given far more competent cars like the boxter at £50k, the Z4 at £40k and the F type at £60k, MMC needs not only to be realistic in their price ambitions but to give something extra that the big makers cant. Part of that is the old style appearance, though I see no reason why they shouldnt make a modern style car on the new chassis as well as the pastiche 1930s look. Part is the rarity. Part is the buying experience and part is the enthusiasits ownership group. They will never compete with the likes of Porsche on the quality and refinement and performance or indeed on the cost base that comes from volume. MMC need to continue to be "special" to justify the premium price necessary to cover small volume and high overheads..



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Well I can confidently say all this rules me out of ever buying another brand new Morgan. I'm glad I bought my 4/4 when I did and i really stretched myself to afford the £36,000 asking price. I previously owned a couple of crossflow 4/4s but ever since Troubleshooter I'd hankered after having a car built for me. The bit that attracted me to Morgans was when Peter Morgan stressed the importance of keeping the price as low as possible so enthusiasts can afford the cars. There's no way I could afford, not to mention justify £60,000 for a toy car when you can have such fun when spending so much less. Good luck to the company and I admire everything about them and their history, but I don't think I can be a part of their future.

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I see the visitor centre is to be closed until March— well this brings us up to Geneva show time! does this also facilitate a re-vamp of the factory with fewer prying eyes to produce the new CX chassis cars in a streamlined fashion and to build up a small launch stock of the Plus4 replacement for Geneva and for early demonstrators / sales cars??? Just speculating- hopefully!!

Cheers!


Robbie
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