Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Another Plus Six bites the dust!

Is that what car breakers look like now, wrecks on racks? I haven't been to one for some time but I well remember the fun of clambering up a stack of cars balanced one on top of another.

A fellow SogMog colleague is heading down to look at this today, He phoned yesterday and apparently there's not much left.

If there were manual versions it would be even more interesting.

I just get the impression this is a combination of massive torque, auto box, light weight, and lack of driver aids.

When the factory test driver lost the orange demonstrator and hit the barrier, he said he wasn't pushing, the road was wet, but it just went, with no hope of recovery.

|Moogie, I'm not a frequent poster here but felt I had to second your comments about the Plus Six. You are spot on. The issue with driving the Plus Six is a lot more complex than just having a sensitive right foot and being careful. Having had a number of high performance cars, 911s, Cayman etc and even higher performance motorcycles I was very much looking forward to my test drive in the Plus Six. I jumped stright out of my Plus 8 Speedster and into the Six. The difference was huge with the Plus 8 being quick but always very manageable and easy to drive fast (even in the wet) whereas the Plus Six was stupendously fast but I felt without the feedback/connection and feeling of control necessary. I also believe the difficulty for the Plus Six is exactly as you say Moogie - huge torque, variable degrees of lag and dificult to predict downshifting from the AT when you apply an additional few mm more throttle. I had extensive experince of a simlar engine in my 440i with Sports pack (365hp) but I felt that the gear shifting map was much better calibrated and better matched the car (mass, rolling resistance etc.). Whilst I can understand (perhaps even accept) Morgan's lack of budget to integrate driver aids that are common place in much cheaper cars, what I really do struggle with is how Morgan don't appear to have the resource to perform the full integration of engines/transmissions from other manufacturers in their cars. Plus Six is a case in point. Roadster 3.7 anyone?

Maybe they should replace the new ‘sport’ button

It is my understanding, after talking to a number of experienced drivers, that perversely, the car is safer in Sport and Sport Plus mode.
How is this?

Consider this situation. You have been driving along at about 60 to 65 on a single carriageway road. There is a slow car in front of you, you slow to 30 or so, waiting for an overtaking opportunity. The car thinks you are in traffic and puts you in the highest gear possible, keeping the revis at about 1500, for maximum torque and maximum fuel efficiency. You see a possibility and push down the loud pedal. There is no turbo lag, peak torque is from 1250 rpm. what seems to be turbo lag is computer lag as the engine and box work out that no you are not in traffic and want to go. So the box drops suddenly to 2nd or 3rd and with an open throttle and massive torque the car squats down on the bump stops, the suspension cannot cope and traction is broken: all power goes to one or other wheel. At that point you are a passenger as there is no traction control to help you.

Replay the same situation, but the box in in Sport +. This time when you slow the box holds a relatively low gear, because its program says "this boy is being sporty, so he may well need power soon". The engine is now at 3500+ rpm. You see the opportunity, push the loud pedal and there is no down change, the car surges forward on a wave of torque, without squatting on the rear bump stops and all is well.

The car needs better suspension, I hope someone is working on it.
The car needs to have power seriously limited when in normal Drive mode. I hope someone is working on it.

With the sort of suspension improvements SSL has brought to trads and now S4 Aeros the car would be rather nice, but always able to bite.
With a revised relationship between gearbox and engine management systems it could be fantastic.

That sounds very plausible, Peter. The leisurely strollers get caught even more fatally than the dynamic driver.

[quote=Almond]|Moogie, I'm not a frequent poster here but felt I had to second your comments about the Plus Six. You are spot on. The issue with driving the Plus Six is a lot more complex than just having a sensitive right foot and being careful. Having had a number of high performance cars, 911s, Cayman etc and even higher performance motorcycles I was very much looking forward to my test drive in the Plus Six. I jumped stright out of my Plus 8 Speedster and into the Six. The difference was huge with the Plus 8 being quick but always very manageable and easy to drive fast (even in the wet) whereas the Plus Six was stupendously fast but I felt without the feedback/connection and feeling of control necessary. I also believe the difficulty for the Plus Six is exactly as you say Moogie - huge torque, variable degrees of lag and dificult to predict downshifting from the AT when you apply an additional few mm more throttle. I had extensive experince of a simlar engine in my 440i with Sports pack (365hp) but I felt that the gear shifting map was much better calibrated and better matched the car (mass, rolling resistance etc.). Whilst I can understand (perhaps even accept) Morgan's lack of budget to integrate driver aids that are common place in much cheaper cars, what I really do struggle with is how Morgan don't appear to have the resource to perform the full integration of engines/transmissions from other manufacturers in their cars. Plus Six is a case in point. Roadster 3.7 anyone? [quote]

I have a 3.7 Roadster with the ECU upgrade, which gives it about 300 BHP. I consider this probably too much power for the trad chassis but it keeps me entertained, so to speak. One has to be particularly careful when driving in a “sporting” manner. On the track it it a super car which, with the suspension upgrades done, handles predictively to an “experienced” driver. By “experienced” I mean someone who is used to driving a car quickly without the standard electronic aids found now on most modern cars. That is why I love owning and driving a Morgan.
I might yet be interested in one of the new CX Morgans but only the Plus Four. I think that the 2 litre is the right size and power for the Morgan and do not see what advantage the 3 litre offers as the 2 litre is plenty fast. Also, I would not be interested in an automatic gearbox as I like to be in control and want the manual connection.
I agree with all that Peter J and Moogie have said and copy hereunder what I originally posted on the Facebook ad which gave rise to this thread, as it seems to be hidden, and concurs with a lot that is being said and expressed here.
My fear is that the Plus Six May be giving all Morgans a bad reputation and insurance companies might start charging us all more in premiums as a result. The first Porsche 911 Turbo soon acquired the nickname of the “widow maker” after it was making headlines for getting wrapped around trees with fatal results. I sincerely hope that the Plus Six doesn’t follow suit.
Copy of what I posted on the Facebook ad -
Richard Lomax
“ David Tuckey It’s the new Morgan Plus 6, no longer built with a ladder frame chassis (as all previous “traditional” Morgans) which if it had, could be fixed. These new cars have an aluminium monocoque chassis which, when in a shunt, will buckle and be rendered an insurance write off being too expensive and probably incapable of being fixed. Hence why the car is in a breaker’s yard for parts. If you look at the photographs you will see that it has been in an accident; no flood damage there.
This is one of a few Plus Sixes which have ended up being wrapped around something, such as a tree, as they have incredible performance with none of the traction control aids etc (apart from ABS brakes) which drivers have become used to and which stop them from crashing their Audi, Porsche or Ferrari, mainly, as it still does happen. However, the Morgan requires a great deal of skill to drive quickly and keep it from an unfortunate ending. This car will not be the last to meet the same fate as the people who are buying these cars have, largely, only ever driven more sophisticated cars such as those mentioned above and which have saved them from embarrassing moments, without them ever being aware.
Sad to see though.“

Interesting but rather sad thread. I drive a 1.6 4/4 Sport with a third of the power of a Plus 6. The 4/4 is fun to drive with plenty of driver involvement. Its not perfect and I can upgrade the cars handling and performance if I wish but I would also be happy with the car as it is.

I haven't driven a Plus 6, I don't aspire to own one, and if I did I would probably use a fraction of the cars performance.

So for me there would no point owning one, and it wouldn't be fun to drive one either. Especially as the Plus 6 is 13" wider than a 4/4 and I like to drive on rural roads.

I agree that some driver training should be part of new owner package. I suppose I would say that as I work in driver training. I am not easily scared though and would hate to be a salesman sitting in with customers on test drives in the Plus 6!

Strikes me that the plus six has a mismatch in auto engine gearbox for the weight of the car. Also I suspect that the tyres are also of the wrong compound for the cars weight. ( those who have driven the 4/4 with original continentals will know)
Having driven a 450bhp cobra replica, perfectly drivable in the dry. Almost impossible in the wet, due the tyres.

As my JLR engineer son observed when he had a good look at the 'CX' platform,, there is NO deformable 'crash structure' up front. So any frontal biased impact is transferred to the chassis... deformation etc.

NO idea WHY it was designed like this... Lotus have used a deformable crash structure on the front area of the Elise 'tub' since it's inception in 1996... and the newer Evora launched in 2010 also has one... additionally the chassis is made up of 3 segments that can be separated and replaced to repair crash damage, mitigating the 'write off' scenario.

I am sure the insurance industry will begin to see this and I fear all CX platform cars will have elevated insurance premiums as a result...