Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) INEOS GRENADIER - update

In my last company the labour cost / kg was the lowest in EMEA in Serbia. But second by a long way was our factory in N Wales. Was this driven by automation. No it wasn't we had the lowest level of investment & the lowest labour cost. Britain in a lot of manufacturing roles is a low cost area.
But companies close sites as the short term closure costs are far lower than the rest of the EU. You easily hit your 2-3 year payback. Our site in Wales only stayed open due to the logistics costs of moving dangerous chemicals.

There are sensible reasons for building it outside Team GB.

Unknown status of tax and tariff outside Brexit times.
Cost of labour (ask JLR about their new factory sadly)
Cost of overheads, tax, paye and other things here ?
Access to a larger market with lower transport costs for distribution
Greater long term support as economies collide (NA and EU, China and EU etc) and EU negotiation is bigger and can defend itself ?

I am not saying we are unable to compete, Nissan and Toyota factories are shining examples of great work by british people. I think Swindon got the bum end of the deal more as a result of Hondas reluctant marketing aggression and reducing sales figures whilst propping up the Japanese production facility? Historically they had great results. I am going to guess that the lack of clarity around Brexit did drive a contributing nail into that one.

But if you read the INEOS article it goes on about being honest and transparent in their DNA, really?
What I find less honest and so makes me feel less well disposed towards them is that they are using a "BRITISH" brand like the defender with the equity gained over years but making it elsewhere if it does go to France. I would not argue over the benefit in a highly competitive and legislated market but it would be a false brand in my eyes. I was impressed by how well BMW have retained the "Mini, its made in Brum" to retain some depth to the Britishness. Whilst freely admitting it is also made elsewhere now. If the components are all sourced outside the UK and it is made in France they may as well call it the 4CV as far as I am concerned.

As many have said, if it was sold as a farm workhorse then the Toyota/Mitsu/Generic pick-up have already sauntered off with it's lunch and left £10k in the bank. If it is going after the low end Chelsea club then I suspect they will migrate to the new not-a-discovery-defender as it does drive better on road and is still a JLR thing a bit like the Range Rover they use for going out. By making it as rugged as a HiLux but £20k more it seems a bit odd? If you then make it in the famous never-made-a-profit Smart factory with the somewhat edgy french labour system It feels like it will be worth watching for an education?

I wish him luck as I do like someone aiming ot make something extra but it does feel a little like they face a prevailing wind.

If they get it on the UK road with a radio and carpets (Inc VAT and Taxes ready to drive) for less than £50k I will be impressed, they are talking about 40k in the article. It feels like some people are playing fast and lose with the facts in order to gain interest which is always a bad sign at this point. I see it in the IT industry all the time.

I agree. Having been burned for £9m by the F1 Ebbw Vale circuit I wouldn’t want more losses for a speculative project from a company that appear to have creative press releases of information that looks a bit contrived.
It is a market that existing players are fighting keenly so unless they can offer a significantly attractive vehicle how can it break into the present mix?

I have worked all my working life in manufacturing companies, I liked the buzz of things being made, BUT I now see that manufacturing is not the only game in town by a long chalk. Le Garde, head of the ECB, has pointed out that the countries to be hit hardest in the coming recession will be those dependent upon exporting manufactured goods, ie Germeny. Manufacturing makes up only 12%, if that, of our economy and we are not doing badly. I am afraid that services are the real money spinner. I do worry about the strategic aspect of the running down our manufacturing base.

Governments have never been good at choosing winners - Concorde vs rockets by Wedgewood Benn.

Strange Germany is predicted to shrink less than France and the Uk from the reports I have seen.

.....which is why Brexit is so mental.

Now that Cummings and Johnson have filibustered the UK into a no-deal Brexit, the city will end up losing passporting rights into the EU and British pre-eminence in the services sector will probably wither on the vine.

We seem to be in a world where alliances are breaking down when we should be pulling together as the west. It would be interesting to finally see the report on Russian interference Boris seems so keep to keep quiet.

That would be nice, wouldn't it.

Obviously not many people keep up with the EU/UK trade talks. No mention in the media, but the EU have just realised they cannot do without London clearing. It's very strange that under May it was this deal or no deal but now they are negotiating from the standpoint of British sovereignty. Do try to keep up.

Perhaps not in the Daily Mail, but good coverage in the FT/Torygraph/Rueters etc.....