Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Fuel cell technology

We've had LPG and CNG power systems for cars for decades.
They're a darn site safer than petroleum in an incident!
My last Saab had an LPG conversion. I felt perfectly safe with it So long as the same safety measures are in place I have no problem with Hydrogen.

But it is driven by politics so far Richard and we know how driven they are by logic

Are there any engine lubrication problems with Hydrogen?

True John, it's a big ask..

Hydrogen is used in fuel cells in which there are no moving parts. Perhaps unlike some early experiments they don't actually burn the gas in an internal combustion engine. Well I suppose there are metering valve systems and in a car or a plane there will be electric motors but there are no more lubrication issues than there would be in a battery electric vehicle (BEV) .

No doubt fuel cell systems will still have some lithium batteries but they will be much smaller/lighter than those used in a BEV. These planes would have very limited flight times if they had to carry the weight of batteries necessary to fly on battery power alone. My feeling is that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCEVs) will be generally much lighter and more efficient than BEVs.

Many times people have noted the near impossibility of providing sufficient charging points in city areas for BEVs. With distribution to current fuel outlets and the short refuelling time of FCEVs that problem goes away, as does range anxiety. In the next few years we will see the cost of FCEVs coming down to match existing car prices or at least that of BEVs and at the same time the number of refuelling points and distribution will ramp up.

It also has to be said that it may be time that a general rethink of car ownership and usage is in order. Because of cars (and in part the lack of an efficient public transport system) we now travel further to work, shop etc. Perhaps it is time for small local stores to make a comeback (we have got into the habit of shopping locally with the covid lockdown and now rarely go to large commercial centres). Smart working helps but not for everyone. In the old days most people worked not far from home but this has been destroyed by mega industry so perhaps industriali need to consider ways of catering to staff travel needs and perhaps look at distributing manufacturing to smaller more local factories. It just requires a different mindset in order to develop effecient systems on a more human level.

Lots of information available. Have a look at https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/fuel_cell.html

Thank you Peter. What I meant to say was LPG, not Hydrogen, with the same question. My mistake.

Used to use 'Flash Lube' on my LPG S2A Land Rover

Flash Lube

Barbecue anyone ? I will just get the Petrol out of the Garage.

Never used anything on my 2.3kVA petrol suitcase generator with propane conversion. In any case careful choice of valve guide material would likely solve the issue.

You havent got quite the right Yorkshire accent for that comment. Its "tha dunt get owt for nowt,lad" * . But you are right of course. People just dont understand the basic law of conservation of energy. To get the combustion energy of hydrogen, you have to use at least the same amount of energy seperating the hydrogen from whatever its combined with in the first place, since hydrogen doesnt exist in nature on its own.

NASA has been using it as rocket fuel for decades but then space rockets are inherently dangerous. The first time that a hydrogen powered train or plane blows up there will be huge pressure to abandon the idea. In any case why generate leccy to split water to produce hydrogen to use in a fuel cell to produce leccy once more with all the inefficiencies that involves rather than shortcut and use the leccy direct.

The future involves fare more energy saving rather than energy substitution. Working from homw, self heating homes etc

* usually goes with " if tha ever does owt for nowt, do it for thissen"