Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) New plus four

Hi Richard,

I feel keeping your existing car is the best option for a few reasons that went though my head about two years ago. I retired the first time in October 2018 a week before the Morgan Muster which I went to, had a good look at the cars and enjoyed chatting to various people. One the way back I took a mis-turn and ended up on a new road though national park, the weather was perfect, the road was perfect, my Silvia was going perfect and i was enjoying toe and heeling though the bends. I was enjoying myself 100% and thinking could a Morgan be any better than the 100% enjoyment I am currently having. Yes the view over the bonnet and walnut dash but probably not much else would have made the experience any better, certainly not enough to justify the 13 times price difference. Plus even though I had in my mind the boss was going to try get me to return to work was a couple of years work worth it to upgrade the car?

So I left thinking either keep Silvia, order a +110 Plus 4, or order a Frontline MGB and after the drive home I was thinking keep the Silvia myself even though I had promised to give it to my son when he turns 25 in 2021 (I can't believe it is this year - how time flies).

Unfortunately I returned to work and the Silvia was written off in a bad hail storm so then the choice was,
1, Not bother with sports cars until something small soft-top and electric turns up rather than the EV mainly SUV options currently available,
2, Buy a cheap older MX5 to keep my investment in cars very low during this time of uncertainty of the future of petrol,
3, Buy a new MX5 that was very nice when I test drove it and under half the cost of the next two options.
4, Try order a +110 Plus 4 with my specs,
5, Order a Frontline MGB (a cheaper option in Australia, unlike the UK where the Frontline MGB's are more expensive than the +4 was).

I ended up going for the MGB for a few reasons, in order of importance to me.

1, I always wanted to order a car to my specs an this was my chance so ignore the MX5 options, this could be the only opportunity to buy something very special.
2, I could visit the car during the build where COVID meant no trips to the UK to see a Morgan being built. Plus 10 or so days visiting over 9 months is more visits than a day or two while on a holiday.
3, Dealing with the MGB workshop I am talking to a car enthusiast who works on the cars rather than a car dealer, yes the Morgan dealer and MX5 dealer I talked to were nice but chatting about the cars with the guy doing and organising the work is very nice.
4, The Quality of the work done by the MGB workshop in Sydney is fantastic, I hope to not get any issues, or if i do they should be sorted out easily unlike some Morgan stories I heard in Bathurst.
5, The MGB will be a 1969 car so I will insure it as a historic car with the benefits of lower premiums, salvage rights etc. Not possible with a 2019 Morgan. (after losing the Silvia I really want salvage rights on my next policy)
6, The Australian Morgan Dealer told me no more orders would be taken for cars as they are only making CX cars from now on, I expect he wanted me to buy his last demo 4/4 he had there.
7, The Australian Morgan Dealer told me he will be shutting reasonably soon and retiring making me wonder about availability of parts.
8, I expect petrol to be the main fuel for cars for another 10 years (especially in Australia that is behind every other country) but EV's will probably take over some day and being a 1969 car at least I can register it Historic if I don't want to or can't use it that much.

The silly thing is how long it took to make the decision. I bought a house in 2019 for my son, girlfriend and expected baby to live in, I looked at about 20 houses and the one I like I walked in and made an offer within 5 minutes. Maybe the difference is it is easy to make a decision when something is needed but harder when it is something you don't need. Or maybe it is just as you say the decision just doesn't feel 100% right.

Chris, what do you think the cost of a basic New Plus 4 CX would be in Australia.....?

Interesting Question.

The base car without VAT is £54,162.50. I am sure I would add some options like 15” Polished Wire Wheels for £3,100.00 (with VAT) and possibly paint, trim roof etc. I know based on the 2017 price list I got a Morgan +4 from $108K to $134K so pretty easy to get it to add up but hopefully the CX come with more features standard and I only reach say £60,000.00 without VAT which is $107,000 then that gives the following

Car = $107,000
Shipping + Insurance = $5,000 (my guess - I paid $2,900 in 2002 for my Silvia from Japan)
Customs brokerage fees = $2,000 (my guess - I paid $1650 in 2002 for my Silvia)
Customs and AQIS fees = $500 (depends on how clean the car is as AQIS charge $350 to steam clean a car they think might have bugs hidden in it)
Duty at 5% = $5,350
GST = $11,735 (10% of car, Shipping/Insurance + Duty)
LCT = $18,103 (33% of (car + Shipping/Insurance + Duty + GST - Threshold of $68,740) * 10/11)
ADR Compliance = $5,000 (I paid $3,500 in 2002 but really the dealer should be doing it so that would affect the costs)

Total = $149,338

However I have talked to both the importer of my Silvia and Chris Van Wyk (the Morgan Dealer in Melbourne) and both said to get a car complied in Australia as a low volume importer a car must be provided to crash test for ADR's with a cost of the car plus $100,000 for the tests. If that is true then that will cost about $250,000. Assuming a new dealer wants to recover that over 10 cars then that adds $25,000 to the cost of each car, they really have to guess how many they are likely to sell. It also is a risk the car will not pass and then that is just money down the drain and the cars can not be sold, so basically a business that has failed pretty quickly.

Also the dealer wants to make money and cover expenses.

Assuming they expect to sell 10 cars a year and are happy with breaking even the first year and then making a profit of $25,000 a car afterwards that would give a cost for each car of about $175,000. Then on road costs which is about $5,000 in the ACT based on the stamp duty, registration etc. making it a $180,000 car.

Comparing the Morgan +4 I wanted in 2018 based on 2017 pricelist of $134,000 to $180,000 I think the CX Plus 4 would be better value, the jump is not as much as I would expect . Probably less increase between say a +110 +4 to a XC plus 4 in the UK. I am sure I have underestimated something and that would probably be the cost of having the car changed for ADR's once here. I expect shipping has gone down a bit with bigger ships dedicated to carrying cars but then UK to Aus is further than from Japan.

Talking to Marlene (Chris Van Wyk's wife who worked for BMW before starting the dealership with Chris) in 2018 she said the number of cars imported just covers the costs, she doubts once she and Chris retires anyone would want to take over the business as there is not enough volume to make a good living from it. Now sure if that is 100% true but that is what she said. I do notice the website is still up and I expect people are still buying spare parts though them.

If someone really wanted one they would need to talk to https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/imports/ about getting a permit before doing anything else. I would be interested to see if anyone could get a permit for a CX Plus 4 but I am not sure what regulations they would be using (I expect the buy it and drive it in the UK for over 12 months rule might be the easiest to meet). I hope so it would be great to see one on the road here, also they hopefully can get away without crash testing if a private importer.

Thank you very much for your journey into another fun car, I remember the sorry pictures of your Silvia but the outcome is just perfect your Frontline is a cracker.

As you implied 1st world decisions such as these take a lot more deliberation than those that have an urgency or need associated with them, the fact that I am hesitant is the proof that this is not for me right now or ever, some of these feelings we can never fully understand.

I wouldn't mind but I'm a both feet in kind of person and this discovery has floored me a little, so the help and advice from the TM collective has helped me no end on my journey.

Rich
Clearly and understandably you have an emotional attachment to your current steed. I did with my P4. However, the reason for deciding upon the change was not just a single one (passenger experience/comfort due to previous Sports exhaust and agricultural suspension, personal health with joint problems, a desire for her Ladyship to drive on some of the longer journeys which she wouldn’t with the manual etc). Thus our emotional attachment was outweighed by the potential benefits.
The difficulty is here that you are trying to make a big decision based on others experience and assumptions, often related to their own real world feelings and emotions (which is one of the many great things about TM). However, my humble opinion, for what it is worth, is to wait until you can test drive the new CX. With the vaccine rollout getting closer (I guess!!!!) to your age group, shirley (sic) it won’t even be too long before you will be able to actually sit behind the wheel of one and experience the difference...and then be in a position where the decision could be made for you?
Just my pennyworth...
With best wishes for everyone’s continued good health and safety...
HB

HB,

Thank you very much for your thoughts on the matter and you make some very valid points which I hear.
I think the big one's for me are the pure rawness/brutishness of the power delivery and handling of the Plus 8 totally unmodified other than the Librands dual sports exhaust which of course is also a real stumbling point.
Heather's GTI has more power and delivers it faultlessly but it is nowhere near as engaging, well I mean it brakes an inside wheel for you if you enter a bend too quickly and that is subjected to ABS as well which of course is all highly efficient but not the feeling I want when I want to let my (very long Covid style) hair down.

I most certainly will test drive the Plus Four at some stage but I'm not feeling the urge after my 100 mile cabin fever squirt down the roads yesterday (naughty but nice). I sat in the garage when I returned thinking to myself why on earth do you want to swap this car..
If the test drive blew my socks off I'm open minded enough to change my mind.

As I said before I think these Plus Four cars really are the future for MMC and they will delight a newer type of owner as well as some that have come up through the traditional range, but not so many of the later I feel, I could well be wrong again..

You and Mrs HB are going to love yours with enthusiasm I know

Take care up there both of you.

Heinz, those are very fair observations currently eg Euro 4 cars are allowed in many city centres. We can see EV as a way forward but increasingly there are initiatives gaining momentum like Porsche;s proposed clean emissions synthetic petrol that may keep the ICE alive. A lot of this is also down to an individuals personal risk profile.

Eight years or so ago ago I had 3 Harleys and they were a great joy to own and ride, then one Saturday after a morning gardening, I've got my feet up on the couch enjoying a well deserved cup of tea, I go to get up and a knee cap pops, which leads to the end of my motorcycling days.

I've always found my wife a rock of sense and has a good understanding of my nature and what drives me, so I always listen to her for that balance and often counterpoint with her views on what may inspire the change of vehicle. They tend to know us better than we know ourselves. The only things we can be certain of is death and taxes.

Thanks Chris. The local dealer has a new web site. The story in local Morgan circles is that they were taking in around A$50,000 per vehicle in the old days.

I think your numbers are not far off but would be in excess of A$200,000 for a basic new Plus 4

I note from the article in MOG mag, that the seats in the plus six were deemed to be comfortable. Mag bias probably, certainly proves a test drive may change your perception Rich.

Richard, I am also a two feet in kind of person, also I don't like to borrow money for cars and every time I got close to being able to afford a Morgan something (normally family related) would happen to my savings The Silvia was special to me because I had it a long time, only a handful exist in the world and in another year I would have been able to put my grand daughter in the back seat using the stuff I used for my son two decades ago. But the Frontline definitely will be a cracker based on my test drives, lots of fun to drive and overall I think a much nicer car than the Silvia was - can't wait to hear those throttle bodies

Gary - A$50,000 per car makes sense, explains how they could stay in business on such a low turn over. I do wonder what the dealers pay for the cars from the factory, obvious less than the advertised price but even so I think you are right it will be over A$200,000 for a car here. I had a bit of a search and can't find any new website for the local dealer, even the Morgan Owners Club has a link to the old site.