Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) A good explanation and arguement

A lot of you folks on here hate the idea of EV's and think hydrogen will be the answer.

Have a read of this

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/02/06/why-are-we-still-talking-about-hydrogen/

Maybe you'll come round to the idea that it's not the answer.

That's a good article, isn't it? I think the point about hydrogen being appealing because some people see it as not requiring a lifestyle change is very telling, but the efficiency argument wraps it up for me.

I think the appeal for many is the ability to fill up quickly (like petrol) and not have to spend time charging.

As I've said before, in many city areas where there is only onstreet parking, the infrastructure needed to support EV is non existant and would take an enormous investment (would make HS2 look like a bargain).

The lack of overnight charging would then mean a huge number of commuters all queuing up to get their morning top up, putting hours on to the working day.

If you're not rich enough to live in a house with a drive then it's the bus for you Matey!!🙂

More seriously, personal car ownership will be discouraged ..... those living cheek by jowl in towns will use electrified public transport, scooters, uber-pods etc rather than having their own car charging in the street outside their house .... the days of 40+ million cars in the UK are numbered.

K

A compelling argument yes, particularly with recent announcements on even faster charging of EV batteries. It does skirt around, well lets be honest it doesn't even mention longevity issues of EV batteries though. This is important unless we are happy to accept that pure EV's are disposables after less than ten years with all the re-cycling that entails.

It does seem like that!

I'm lucky, I own my house and could afford to have a dropped kerb put in (£2000) and at some point will pay to have the deeds changed to allow off road parking (£1000 - but will probably leave it unless I want to sell). Once you can get a reliable second hand EV for £500, I'm in. I have no issues with using an EV for my daily commute.





However a vast majority of houses are rented and have no off road parking. Most have at least one car but most have many more- opposite have three generations in the same house and four cars. There is a lampost every 10 houses or so.

With regard to Public Transport - there is little work in Rushden (bar retail/care home) so most have to travel to Wellingborough, Northampton or Milton Keynes. We have no rail station. You can get a bus to Welly or Northants OK, but to get to MK is much more convoluted. The earliest I can possibly get there is 8.02am, and I would need to get the first bus at 5.34am. If I wanted to get to school for my usual 7.00am start (I leave home at 6.25am) I would need to start my journey the previous evening. Again, would need a massive investment in infrastructure to make it work.

Mobility will remain endemic because it brings choice as TBM highlights. I tried using public transport for a month during one of my high mileage periods. I would leave home on Monday and do a loop of customers and prospects coming home Thursday evening. In the car this was a simple thing. Using train/cab (no bus) it became a nightmare. 5am starts, no time in the evening to prep due to transport. Miss one train or suffer a cancellation (quite a few of them VIRGIN) and stuff the lot for the day. No cabs at a station to get to a hotel. My month was reduced to two and a half weeks.

There are several car sharing schemes running now with the model proving effective in cities however it is interesting to see the difference between the BEV and ICE programs.

The car rental and sharing schemes that use electric cars require one thing, an overprovisioning of the fleet to allow for charging time on them. This is going to have to be worked into the business model. Alongside provisioning of convenient charging locations and infrastructure which needs to be provisioned by the rental company if they are to be effective. Picking up a car with 90% empty petrol tank is annoying, picking one up with 10% charge is a waste of time and makes the flex useless. This plus the extra cost of the BEV vehicle makes the shared service a lot more expensive than the Citroen Ami as an example. But that burps the idea of small electric city cars! Another fine mess.

+1

I am an environmentalist‘s worst nightmare - I own 9 cars and 3 motorbikes and unashamedly love driving them. However, in all other respects I consider myself an environmentalist but accept that I’m possibly a hypocrite. At least I am honest about it. I am also an engineer with 35+yrs experience and have been following the alternative fuel and autonomous cars debate with interest.

The problem is that there are simply too many cars on the road. Bring that down significantly and everything improves. The only way to do that is to encourage less travel (home working) and significantly improve public transport. I’m not actually suggesting that public transport should be free but if it was, and also fit for purpose, then everyone would want to use it and car ownership for the masses would be a thing of the past.

Then fuel buses and lorries with hydrogen and the smaller remaining vehicles with either electricity or hydrogen. This gives people with driveways the option to refill EV’s overnight and those with only street parking to fill up with hydrogen if they can afford it.

Leave autonomous cars for disabled people. Never for public transport. I’m sure that tube trains could run without drivers but it’s a small price to pay for the reassurance of knowing there’s a human being up front.

David

You're doing well on the environment side then - you can only drive/ride one vehicle at a time, thereby keeping the other 11 off the road...