Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) Suffolk Cars

Given that there are probably in excess of 1000 C type replicas in existence already, it hasn't impacted on the value of the real thing so far.

Anyone prepared to fork out the best part of a million quid for a Jaguar built continuation C type (or E or D) is hardly likely to be tempted by a replica.

The irony in this, and other cases, is that JLR have previously actively supported some of the replica builders with technical advice and even drawings.

I find it strange that the court has ruled that Jaguar can copyright the design and shape of a car that has been out of production for almost seventy years, whereas JLR lost their case against Ineos when they tried to copyright the Land Rover Defender shape.

Whatever the reasoning, the general consensus is that they've shot themselves in the foot PR wise. Even the Jaguar Drivers Club has a dedicated section for Replicas, I'd be surprised if their response is positive.

Yes, but things have changed in recent years. People are not just building kit cars/ replica and calling it what it is. Now people are buying one real, high value car and breaking it into three piles of parts. They then build up three cars and try to sell them all off as the real thing. There is a joke in the Lotus world that there are now only 156 Elan 26R's left out of the original 52 that Lotus made.
Cheers
John

One local high end car builder made a replica for a very prominent fashion icon. He couldn’t use his original car due to insurers barring it due to multi million value so the replica was ordered and made. He could then drive it, albeit a damn good replica. He has both....moneybags original plus a usable version.
Provided the replica is a good one not just cobbled together then they are fine. In the kitcar world there are both types. There are excellent and poor Cobra kits for example. Lots of Lotus 7 type variants.

If anyone is interested here is a press release (from the family I believe)

WORLDWIDE PRESS RELEASE Tuesday 9th February, 2021

Jaguar – the unacceptable face of capitalism
Big business crushes Swedish couple
Impact on loyal Jaguar enthusiasts worldwide
Alleged unethical behavior
International fund-raising seeks support to fight back



Shock Court Ruling

Jaguar Land Rover wins rights to the 1951 C-type – far reaching consequences for the whole replica community

Jaguar Land Rover recently sued a lifelong Jaguar enthusiast, Karl Magnusson (age 68), for copyright infringement after building a C-type replica in his home garage in Gothenburg Sweden, despite decades of global public approval of the replica industry from Jaguar themselves. Jaguar won. Unless overturned, the ruling is expected to set a global precedent for car manufacturers, opening up copyright proceedings for other car models across the global car industry.

Swedish pensioner and honorary member of the Swedish Jaguar Club, Karl Magnusson was invited by senior management to the Jaguar Land Rover Classic UK HQ in 2016 to give a presentation about his C-type project. “Our C-type replica was going to be the cherry on top of our small private collection of restored Jags,” says Magnusson. That collection has had to be sold to fund lawyer costs.

Despite two years of correspondence regarding future project collaboration, meetings and nothing but praise from Jaguar Classic management, Mr. and Mrs. Magnusson were sued in 2018 by Jaguar Land Rover for copyright infringement. A staggeringly uneven battle began between a global corporation and retired pensioners, who have had to put everything on the line.

“We feel so betrayed. They had every opportunity to warn me if I was doing something wrong.” says Karl Magnusson.

After a surprising verdict by the Stockholm District Court in December, Karl and Ann-Christine were found guilty of copyright infringement and their privately-built C-type replica deemed illegal and subject to destruction - a project inspired by passion that took nine years of research and labour to complete.

In addition, the Magnussons are required to pay Jaguar Land Rover’s legal costs of £450,000. Furthermore, JLR can also claim damages.

“We don’t understand why a multi-billion dollar company needs to destroy the lives of two grandparents. And this is just one of at least 1,500 replica C-types built globally in the past 45 years. The consequence of the verdict is that all owners of C-type replicas now risk being forced to destroy their cars when JLR comes after them,” said Ann-Christine.

As for the replica industry, this verdict giving a 70-year-old car shape copyright protection is likely to have far-reaching consequences - in essence, making all C-type replicas unlawful to display, sell or use on public roads or in other public circumstances, under threat of penalties and/or destruction.

While this is a verdict by a Swedish court, because of EU directives the judgement will be invoked in other EU countries, potentially threatening the entire European replica industry. Under the current understanding of relevant agreements, this can be invoked in the UK even after Brexit. Due to this verdict, other car makers can use this precedent and claim copyright of their historic models, threatening 10s of 1,000s of Ferrari, Ford GT40, Porsche, AC Cobra, Aston Martin and other replicas.

“We don’t understand where this has come from considering Jaguar's history of supporting the replica industry,” states Karl Magnusson.

“We feel it’s so hypocritical of Jaguar to sue us when their own senior management privately build, commission, race and own C-type replicas themselves.”

Over the years Jaguar have supported the replica industry in various ways. No less than three Jaguar CEOs have supplied close to 2,000 drawings to replica builders as well as given awards to replica builders. Three Jaguar senior managers and one Director, previous and present, have privately built and raced C-type replicas themselves.

“The Engineering Manager at JLR Classic, who met with us, was used as a witness against us in court, all the while keeping his own C-type replica in his garage.”

Since 2015, 25 historic Jaguar Land Rover Classic Challenge races have been held, and 5 more are planned this year, publicly inviting replicas. On YouTube official Jaguar Land Rover marketing films feature proud displays of replicas.

You can even pay to take the Jaguar Land Rover “Classic Drive” experience, which includes driving C-type and D-type replicas. None of them built by JLR.

JLR Classic Works are currently launching their own “continuation” replica E-types and C-types with the help of replica producers in the UK, who are the ones with the skill and knowledge to produce the parts. In other words, at the same time as JLR are calling replicas illegal and pursuing this in the courts, they financially support and cooperate with replica producers.

And it does not stop here: just google “JLR Replica” and the first hit takes you to an official Jaguar Land Rover dealership, selling US kit-car C-type replicas on their website. https://www.jlrclassics.com/cars/

Despite the initial setback, the Magnussons remain determined to continue the fight and proceed with an appeal. “Anyone who has been involved with classic cars would understand the absurdity of all Jaguar replicas suddenly becoming illegal. The court ruling is highly questionable to say the least, and we have a very strong appeal,” says Karl Magnusson.

The appeal process will put a further extreme financial strain on the retired couple and their family. “We are going to have to sell our house and all of our belongings if we lose an appeal. Jaguar would essentially make us homeless.” The Magnussons have now resorted to crowdfunding to raise the needed funds, hoping for the engagement of the replica community to support them through the appeal process.

Unless the ruling is overturned in the Court of Appeal, it will not only open the door for Jaguar Land Rover to continue to sue and crush small replica builders and passionate Jaguar enthusiasts but sets a precedent for all other car manufacturers, threatening replica builders and owners on a global scale.



Enthusiasts worldwide are encouraged to share this on social media and to donate any amount, however small. At the Go-Fund Me page [request for donation retracted]



For more information and direct quotes, please contact Elizabeth Magnusson, daughter of Karl and Ann-Christine Magnusson and Official Spokesperson.

Email: [personal information retracted]

Phone: [personal information retracted]


FURTHER INFORMATION:

Court documents

The Swedish court files are public and can be requested from the Swedish courts at https://www.domstol.se/ and are also available in original and auto-translated versions using the following links:

Court ruling
Auto-translated to English: http://bit.ly/38UwvJj
Appeal
Appeal, auto-translated to English: http://bit.ly/2LhwaYY
Supplement to the appeal, auto-translated to English: http://bit.ly/3abYy81
Annexes: http://bit.ly/3iQxbUF

It's really playing on the 'going after the pensioner' although even his daughter has said:



In reality, no different to the Suffolk situation. Going after a company selling replicas.

Not defending the action, but it's all getting rather emotive!

Had a boring lunch break (working in school) and read through some of the Court proceedings. it seems the company 'Creare Form AB' were creating and promoting a C Type copies under the name Authenticat.

The original one had been sold by Creare Form to Karl Magnusson (owner of the company). It had then been displayed in public, and marketing produced for sale of subsequent models.

Some employees of JLR had been liaising with Karl with drawings and design since 2006 on the belief that he was creating a one off, personal replica, not that he was creating a number of copies for commercial reasons.

So it seems that if you want to build your own one off copy, not a problem. If you want to produce and sell copies, then JLR will come after you.

From 2018 C Type replicas

You will need google translate

Agreed MPH.

The PR angle of this does make them seem grasping when as brand with that reputation and current market challenge should be doing all it can to foster the love from the field. They have a big hurdle to climb in this world market. When CV19 comes more under control and people come out of their boxes I cannot see the return to travel being the same. Private cars will do less mileage. Company cars will likely come under scrutiny if WFH can be achieved more. All good for the planet and recovery of spare hours for real life.

The difference between a (quality) hand built replica and a new-old release from a vendor is probably a zero on the end from £200k to £2m. The difference is that the manufacturer also really wants the brand extension and PR kudos which these releases bring as a halo for the other sales. Example being all the press around the Aston DB007. If they can make money out of it all the better! I just meant that I expect they are willing to pay lawyers when they see a benefit which justifies it and that could be a new-old one coming down the pipeline. As always I explained myself way too briefly sorry.

As the action against Creare pre-dated the case against Suffolk, one wonders if JLR went after Suffolk as a result of the stink the Magnussons caused. It does say that because of EU directives they could then invoke the result in other EU countries.

The Press Release above is VERY economical with the truth. There is not one single mention of the company they set up to sell these replicas (and shown in the 2018 article above) and the number of cars they were building, clearly visible in the photos.

They are also trading off the premise that all replicas will be illegal, which again is a complete fabrication.

I'm afraid any initial sympathy I had for their situation is slowly vanishing.They have been the architects of their own demise, and brought Suffolk down with them.