Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) 4/4 with GM 1.8 Red Top

Hello all

I'm finally about to be in the market for a Morgan. I have a 19 year obsession and have followed the forums for most of that time.

I noticed this car on Autotrader https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...ds=true&advertising-location=at_cars
.
Initially it was without pictures and mentioned being 4 seater. When I rang the seller, he explained that it is a 2 seater but he had trouble with filling out the details for the add. I see he has now added pictures and a clarifying note. The car has the GM 1.8 engine transplant.

Anyway, I wondered how any owners are getting on with these few cars which were re-engined a few years ago by Tudor Motor Bodies of Market Drayton (Kevin Vernon). I know Tim Harris (Hamwich) has one and I've re-read his 2008 test drive report (on an early such conversion).



Questions which come to mind include:

Are there any reliability issues in the longer term? I notice on Morganatica a report of an electrical connector failing and causing a fuse to blow but this seems to be easily remedied.

How does the (I think) Salisbury rear axle cope with the extra power over the long term?

Any feedback on whether the cars are worth more or less than standard on the market?

Any issues with the chassis after being opened up for the exhaust exit?

Any significant difference in weight compared to the CVH engine?

I'm not sure which gearbox this car has? I believe some have the original Ford, while others may have alternatives transplanted?

Anything else which might sway a potential purchaser?



I'm disappointed the car is not a 4 seater but might still consider viewing it, when rules allow. It is at Market Drayton. Only about 30 miles from me.

Best wishes to everyone - keep safe.

David Stuart
Mogdavid

David

Not too familar with the 1.8 GM engines but I've got plenty with the 2 litre Red Tops.

Not to my taste - I'd use a 1.8 or 2.0 Zetec instead.

Always difficult to value what is a special? Asking price us probably about right if the rest of the car is sound

I've a feeling that it's the Ecotec engine which I understand isn't a bad little lump. I know a few people who run them in Novas and Corsa rally cars with no issues.

The Salisbury axle will be more than adequate for the performance. They can cope with 250 bhp plus if need be!

For RWD applications, I think the chosen gearbox would be an Opel Manta box but it would make sense to use a Ford Type 9 in a Mog there are all sorts of adapter plates and belllhousings out there.

Chassis mods should be fine if done properly.

On the downside, when the time comes for the car to be classed as a historic vehicle then unless it has the original engine, it won't be classed as a historic vehicl

Kind regards

Arwyn

David, if you really want a 4 seater then wait, there are others out there, potentially if you buy this one you'll probably spend cash on it tweaking various bits then in a year the 'ideal' 4 seater will pop up & you'll end up trading up. This one will have limited appeal when you come to sell due to the engine swop, plus personally I think it's overpriced

Yep, don't underestimate the versatility of the 4 Seater, especially the older ones. With the seat cushions in place I can easily get 4 x 70 litre cargo bags in, plus another two if I use the rack. Weekly shop is no problem. Take the foam seats out, and I've had a full weeks worth of camping/walking gear in.

I think had I gone the 2 seat route I'd have used her far less.

There's not much need for me to point out that my replies to these questions will be coloured by the fact that I am an absolutely massive fan of this conversion, I had mine done in early 2008 and it's been completely reliable apart from point 1.



This happened to me on a motorway in Belgium in 2008, shortly after I had the conversion done. The electrical bullet connector on the bulkhead that feeds the radiator fan came apart, and this blew a fuse. The resulting error code put the engine into limp mode, so it would only run at just over 2,000rpm. Reconnected the fan, replaced the fuse and it's been perfect ever since.

I have done some routine work on mine (Cambelt and Camwheels, Alternator Belt, Oil filters etc) and have no probs getting stuff from my local Vauxhall dealer - in fact they were so taken with the conversion they made me an honorary member of the Astra Sri club so the could give me a discount.



I had my rear axle rebuilt by Billy Bellinger in 2012, the diff was a bit worn (not because of the new engine) but mainly I fancied a Quaife LSD. I also fitted anti-tramps and a Panhard rod but they aren't strictly necessary.



By rights they should be worth more because you get a 165bhp 4/4 with absolutely stonking performance, but of course people are obsessed with originality so probably not.



None whatsoever.



It's a bit lighter, and ground clearance is a bit better.



Kevin did the prototype with an Omega 5 speed box. I think all the other were done with the original Type 9 box, mine and one other definitely have, but I can't be certain about the one you're considering.



If you really want a 4-seater, then it's probably best to hang on for one. If you want a 2-seater that goes like absolute stink, wails like a banshee all the way up to 7,000 rpm and is a complete hoot to drive, then this car will deliver in spades. You need have no fears about reliability or the quality of the conversion. I have obtained all the technical information on the setup from Kevin Vernon and have the software necessary to edit the ECU configuration so there's no need to be concerned about the knowledge being lost - but having said that I haven't touched my setup since I had it done, I am perfectly happy with it.

That's a pretty positive review from Tim; makes me want one!
If you are still nervous, what about this one, which looks as if it may have the Fiat engine which is a great engine, and is a 4 seater...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1986-Morgan-Plus-4-4-Seater-Petrol-Manual/174303631551?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I've just written this reply once and then accidentally deleted it!

Thank you for your replies.

Arwyn. I hadn't considered the historic vehicle side of it. Could maybe end up paying road tax beyond the car's 40th year, maybe?

Jon M. You may be right and I would certainly think carefully before buying. I haven't waited this long, just to buy the wrong car, lol!

TBM. Although changes in my circumstance mean I don't NEED a 4 seater, I have come to fancy them more. I like the hood down looks and consider them so ugly they're cute when hood-up (personal taste obvs). I do still like the easy luggage stowage and don't rule out a camping trip at some point.

Tim H. I'm glad you're still as enthusiastic about this conversion. I think I would be very seriously interested if this was a 4 seater, depending on the condition. It is good to know you have the technical and setup information available. I wonder whether Kevin did any 4 seaters?

Nick W. That Fiat +4 is on my radar. I'm not usually keen on red but may view the car, when rules allow, just to see if I could love it. A Fiat +4 4 seater is more or less top of my list!

Thanks again everyone. I won't rush into anything but hope to buy my Mog before too long now.

David Stuart
Mogdavid

David
What ever MOG you decide to buy, remember to do your homework. Most MOG owners look after the cars, but not all. Have a look on the forums - GOMOG is a good as well as TM. Look out at the weak point on the frame etc.

Enjoy your search and buy with your head, not your heart!

He did, it's owned by a friend of mine. It's definitely not for sale though.

And living in France