Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 M3W Electrical Gremlins strike

Anyone else had these problems !
2012 M3W
A few weeks ago the Main Beam Blue light came on when sidelights or dipped headlights ( and main beam) were switched on.
Everything else on the MOG worked fine.
At the time I noticed vaguely that with the headlights on you could not turn the engine off !
Now having investigated why this blue light comes on and found nothing obvious I disconnected the Indicator Module ( don't let the name confuse you it is a far more complex unit than that)
The Mog will even start without this module plugged in !!
After plugging it back in there are now no sidelights or headlights working yet the lights in the speedo indicate they are working.
Further confusion reigns in that when you switch the headlights on the ignition comes on and you can start the engine via the starter button without turning the key on.
Quite how the headlight switch can work the fuel pump/ ignition is beyond me at the moment !
Of course I checked all wiring, fuses, swapped relays etc to no avail.
It starts and runs fine but there is definitely some electrical crossover in the system.
Anyone else had similar problems ? which might point me towards looking in the right area for a fixable solution.
There is clearly some hidden electrical item that has failed and causing these problems, a wiring diagram would be a big help, Ian Brett has pointed me towards one in the Parts list.
Ian

Hi Ian - see also http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/696377/turn-signal-module-lets-build-a-better-one which could be something involved

Got one of these from them last weekend to find that my car is earlier so the plug is different. They will eventually produce one to suit earlier and later cars. In the meantime I am being lent a module that is suitable to see if it sorts the problem. I just find it hard to see how any electrical circuit could ever be wired that the headlight switch works the engine start
Ian

There are stay alive circuits within the TSM module to allow power to hazards for example, with ignition off Ian. Conjecture is that a failure in this module allows a back feed from stay alive source to ignition/start circuit.

Quite how you still get the back feed without TSM plugged in is beyond me without access to full circuit diagram.

Note the headlamps are ultimately controlled by two relays, one the usual dip/main and the other for main beam flash.

Hi Richard,
Agree that there would be a failsafe in built but quite why even with the module disconnected the headlight switch will turn ignition on is baffling me at the moment. Whilst it all points to the Module being faulty until I can get a replacement I cannot prove or disprove anything. Luckily Ian Brett is lending me his spare module tomorrow.
Then will see what happens.
Ian

In the old days of incandescent bulbs cross lighting pointed to a dodgy earth. Not sure if this would apply to the M3W but maybe worth checking.

A couple of years back I had issues where fuses were blowing for no reason. I could also start the car when hazards were on without the key. Ignition off

Solved the situation when auto electricians added quite a few more fuses and unscrambled the circuits where several circuits appeared to use a single fuse.

My car is April 2012.

Seems that it was possible to get feedback across various circuits and separating the circuits with their own fuses stopped this

Had no issues since then. Fingers crossed.

Thanks Richard,
I know you are quite a bit more savvy on electrics than me.
It is a really strange one this is. Even with the module off the car depressing the headlight switch operates the fuel pump/ignition AND the normal ignition by key works the same.There is a clear crossover of wires at some point in the system. The initial problem i saw on the dash was headlight main beam lit when sidelights or low headlights on. But the car drove fine and everything else worked. Even went to the LaKes and back, 1,000 mls.
Only when home I thought I would check out the system.
Part of this was fit another Ind Module which often is the culprit.
This actually made more problems as when plugging back in I now had no sidelights/headlights.
I then found a small box taped to the underside of fuse box with four HFV6 Relays in and masses of wires, tests showed they were lights related and found the one that operated the H/lt dip and main beam was duff.
Unable to buy locally ( even Halfords) so ordered on NET, coming Wed AM.
This may cure the lights problem, OR NOT.
I have a wiring diagram which sadly is not very comprehensive enough to follow all of the set up.
Ian

This sounds a similar problem to mine. But if the car has been OK before then it must be a failure of a reverse diode which Morgan seems to have had a field day with putting them in several parts of the loom to prevent voltage feedback. This is the hard part finding what has broken up and where. Agree there are far to many circuits using just four relays on the fusebox it would have been better to have kept some circuits separate.
Ian

Is that relay box with the four HFV6 relays inside in the wiring diagram?
I saw a comment elsewhere relating to pre-2004 Morgans that the stalk/headlamp dip/main contacts burnt out quickly so extra relays were added,
so I wonder if that is this modification?