Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Series 1 Roadster - Sump

That happens often. I was thinking it was a device to protect the very low, fragile sump from any impact.



And how does it do that and why would that help with the dangerous issue of a low slung fragile sump?



Actually, there have been many claims here that it will do just that, but I won't argue with you. BTW, if you are right, why bother with it at all?. It will merely lower and spread the low clearance by many, many multiples..meaning users will impact more often. And any impact over that much larger low area will be transferred to the sump. Kapow!



AGREED! But this plough has a negative effect. But I admit to having advised some owners to paint over or disconnect the Morgan gauges that agitate them the most. For example, by the time you notice you have no oil pressure on your gauge, your engine is seized. Why worry except when changing your oil?



Interesting. But I have become completely prepared to believe any reg governments pass these days. You mean the distance between the top of the engine and the bonnet is government presumed to create a safety zone to protect pedestrians hit at the front?...or front and back? The group can decide the logic in this.

As a historical note, Maurice Owen, the MMC designer from 1967 to 1991ish) EFI Morgans Plus 8s couldn't figure out to easily get the plenum under the bonnet hinge, or the air filter holders under the bonnet with SU carb Plus 8s. IN the first case, he cut the bonnet hinge. In the earlier case, he had them hammer the SU air filter holder flatter with a hammer. Bill Beck sorted this stuff when HE took over from Maurice. But we are giving grounds that Beck's lowering of the engine, was no favour for Roadsters. Even the modern day MMC is hobbled by not knowing what came before..in fact, even denigrating it .

When I received my re-created Plus 8 from Malvern, I noticed that the Beck setup did not require me to cut the bonnet hinge! I was working with Bill then, he had been sent over to help me assemble my last remaining Morgan and was living with us at the time. We talked at length about his changes and ideas. Great fun over a nightly bottle (or 2) of wine.

Here are images for you.

"That happens often. I was thinking it was a device to protect the very low, fragile sump from any impact"

ANY impact. Why would you think that? It's not a claim made by the op.

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"The clue is in the word plough. The idea is that it might sweep away a small obstacle,
And how does it do that and why would that help with the dangerous issue of a low slung fragile sump?"

Surely you understand how a snowplough works. The clue is the shape. Small obstacles would be brushed sideways avoiding the sump. I'm pretty sure 99.99% of our posters would understand that. The other .01% is you.

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"
AGREED! But this plough has a negative effect."
But it doesn't...have another look at the pictures but keep both eyes open this time. It sits ahead of, not underneath the sump.

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"presumed to create a safety zone to protect pedestrians hit at the front?...or front and back? The group can decide the logic in this."
The regulations concerning how soft the front of a vehicle must be are all about cars driving into pedestrians. Not too many drivers, however inebriated they might be, reverse at 30mph into walkers.

..........

Your picture of the carb v8 with the hammered box could be of my car which I owned for several years, a 1978 plus 8. Long before the regs relating to perambulating obstacles.


Over and OUT.

Nick

AH So it is not a protection for the sump? It certainly does vastly multiply the lowest (problem) ground clearance point by 50-100 times and does so ahead of the sump (mostly) Is that considered a good thing?!!!

See this image.

Here are others you can help me with. What are A,B, and C in these ?





In fact, I now have a snowplow for the house I am building. But Nick, if the intent of Dave was to sweep debris away from the sump, would not have the business end of brushes worked better without presenting a much greater risk to the sump by its presence?



Sorry Nick. I am not seeing anything new. The low clearance area has be expanded hugely and any front impact will push the assembly into the sump (shrug) or damage the all-important flange it is attached to. Can you help me with the indicated points on the images?



But how many pedestrians, inebriated or not, fly upwards and TOWARDS the car hitting them and then down onto the bonnet, and get damaged by the engine hidden underneath? But as I said, kind man, I do not argue the logic of any governments regs or presume anything copied or designed by the Factory is perfect. I leave that to others.

By the way. Have you ever looked at the Alfa (iffy) solution for the same problem. Below.



BTW, for fun, do an image google on "engine skid plates" or "sump skid plates" and count how many you find place in front of either.

They make EVERY effort to leave the air flow dynamics of the engine bay undisturbed. I applaud that. They also cover the entire sump and leave space between the skid plate (aka guard) and the sump. Roadsters don't have that option.



Happy to have brought back pleasant memories.

Gosh... you're quite good fun.
1.So, your first picture is of a sump guard. Which has nothing to do with this thread so why post it?
2.Your second picture: if you can't see that B is not lower than A (i.e. the plough is ahead of, not lower than the sump) you should have gone to Specsavers
3.Do you use brushes on your snowplough? No? Then you might work out why the OP decided not to use brushes either.
4.if you drive into a pedestrian they do exactly the motion you are ridiculing. They go up and land down on the bonnet. Look at some of the car test videos.
5. Pleasant memories. Yes, you have brought me some back, thank you. I remember fondly, for instance, when, about 35 years ago I used to teach Philosophy and psychology to 16 year old students for the exams we call A levels. In most classes there was one boy who would do what you are doing here; adding irrelevant issues, refusing to accept the obvious, in fact all the things we now call trolling on the net, but of course we didn't have that word or the internet then. I always quite enjoyed the to and fro but, of course, those students rarely made the grade.
Nick

In reality it was rubbish (but post was t in c), metal is far too thick to work. And, I’ve just realised it’s not a snowplough but a snow shovel!

Anyway, my 4/4 Duratec sump is low(but not Roadster low) but yesterday…..We (wife and I) visited Barr Beacon, a local beauty spot/courting area, hadn’t been there for decades. On the exit road, steep curvy and downhill, I didn’t see the first sleeping policeman in the bright sunshine. Touched the brakes in time for the second policeman…..and then I noticed just beyond what looked like an inverted bugs bunny. Two large upstanding teeth…….I held my breath!

I can now sympathise with all Roadster users. So we’ll done DaveW for at least trying to minimise the risk.

Thanks Salmo! Every small step reduces the risk slightly. In 13 years ownership I've only hit the sump once in a car park, without damage, so it's a manageable risk. I have a Mulfab sump on the shelf with two or three sumps in reserve, but the Mulfab only gains a few mm, and my engine mounting spacers got me a few mm. It's just that when touring far flung reaches of Scotland, the roads can be littered with whatever, and so a primary shield makes a lot of sense.

Thread Drift Warning....

The BMW engine in the plus 8 has a pressed steel sump. but the oil filter housing is plastic and it is the lowest point. So it can be ground away and the result is the oil pump draining the engine in about 15 seconds.. The Wolf brushing plate is good insurance! But as it is bolted to the engine block it wouldn't satisfy some "engineers"

Room for improvement: make it out of titanium so any contact would result in a shower of sparks.

Engineering evolves in small steps through innovation, as we know Peter. Not through flat earthers.

If the earth was flat we wouldn't need sump protection at all.....................

How tedious that would be...

Not if we drove over the edge Peter