Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Spare wheel removal?

My handbook (undated but marked as part number MMM5732) was issued with my 2011 plus 4 which is one of the first with a Mazda box. It has a section numbered 15 & headed “Lifting and Towing” starting on page 76. It shows a pic of the towing loop with advice to use the loop only. There is then a red warning but that is only about using the correct towing equipment to avoid personal injury, releasing the steering lock and ensuring that neutral is selected. It finishes off to suggest that whenever possible, it is always better to use a car transporter rather than towing.
And that is it...nothing specific about the gearbox. However, having read the Mazda advice then I think I will take the cautionary route if ever the situation should arise, unless anyone on here has stripped a Mazda box and knows different?
Thanks again Richard.

Doug,
Well researched on the Mazda box you could well save some owners a lot of grief if they read your information, TM at it's best.

Chaps I think you will find that the no tow advice relates to the fact that parts of the gearbox are internally lubricated by a first motion shaft (input shaft) driven oil pump. This is driven by the engine even when in neutral so with a none running engine there is no oil pump.

This can cause considerable damage but please don’t panic, it’s not towing the car from one side of the road to the other or onto a slide back recovery vehicle (I have heard owners panic over this). I can’t quote a safe distance but certainly a few yards is okay being towed to a motorway service area is not kind of thing.

Hope that helps.

BR
Colin

Thanks Colin, that was exactly what was meant i.e. no spectacle lift tows but short moves are ok.

Just watched a video of a Mazda gearbox stripdown. There was no signs of an actual oil pump. However I have concluded the following:
The input and output shafts live in the “upstairs” in the box whilst the layshaft sits nearer the bottom, typically submerged in plenty of oil. So with engine running, and with a constant mesh gearbox of course, all of the gearwheels on the layshaft and output shaft turn together and consequently get a good splashing of oil. (It’s only the actual output shaft that stays still until a selector ring slides across to engage a gear of choice, with the splines on the shaft)
However, if the vehicle is towed, rotational input to the gear box is now reversed...the output shaft is whizzing round by virtue of the prop shaft BUT as it is in neutral, its gears are not actually engaged with the shaft, merely sitting still whilst the shaft is spinning merrily away. So as we are towing along, all the actual gear wheels in the box are stationary, the only movement being the output shaft itself...NO splashing about of oil..output shaft gets starved of lubrication, overheats, etc.
Hope this makes some sense.
Totally agree with Colin above: a short tow is not going to cause a problem.

The bottom line as always is "know your car".

Doug's assessment is spot on for most modern manual gearboxes.

However, remember there is no load on the gears when in this mode so the residual lubrication will sustain a short tow.

Yes, my head was in R380 mode where the internal oil pump is driven off the rear of the lay gear cluster. As mentioned in a CM Gearbox the input shaft drives the lay gear cluster but the output shaft doesn’t as the 4th gear sits on a bearing and ‘freewheels’ until engaged. I used to run the transmission training course at Volvo light years ago and on some of their transmissions the pump feeds the 5th gear housing.

All a long way from the days I stood up front teaching Maxi 5 speed training 🤣

BR
Colin

Applicable to the LT77 as well as the R380.

I'd pretty much decided to leave 'as is' but then got sent this yesterday, which I think looks pretty good. Might get the old tin snips out.....