Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Electric Cars

I'm slowly adopting the view that EVs are not really cars at all, but mobile spaces controlled by computer into which the user can make certain inputs.
Tesla has released a "Christmas Software Update", it is wide ranging including a new GUI and screen layout.
This is a copy of the release notes.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/introducing-software-v11-0

Overall it is positive, and also contains examples of the sort of culture within the company, particularly the light show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuWqKe9_s6M

Another study showing how EVs produce much less CO2 than ICE vehicles over their lifetime:

https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/TEs-EV-life-cycle-analysis-LCA.pdf

The study conducted by Transport & Environment concluded that on average, in Europe, an EV emits 63% less of CO2 emissions of an equivalent ICE vehicle over their lifetime.

The study took into account:

- the production of the cars (including the battery, engines, ...);
- production of electricity (wind, solar, geothermal, gas, coal, ...);
- extraction, processing, transportation and refining of gasoline and diesel; electricity losses;
- different lifetime mileage acording to different vehicles types (from 170k km to 500k km).

A very interesting conclusion is that the worst case scenario, when an EV is produced in China and used in Poland (mostly coal generated electricity), the EV emits on average 25% less CO2.
Best case scenario, an EV built and driven in Sweden emits 80% less CO2.

The good part is that with more renewable energy and more efficient production in the coming years, EVs will emit even less CO2 compared to ICE.

Wow what a thread some serious stuff and very elequontly put . I started to get a guilt complex over my carbon footprint so I bought an EV (Mustang Mach is E) a friend said if everyone had EV's there would be no electricity left for normal use, so the guilt complex returned and I eased my guilt by installing a solar system that will generate (so they say) the equivalent power in a year that I would use with the EV. It has been installed for 2 weeks and not unexpectedly has only produced enough power for me to do 7 miles ! Incidentally I love the car, the only frustration is the "app" even though I have been driving for 50 years perfectly well without an "App" now I have an" app" that turns on the heating, remote starts, tells me when to stop for a cup of coffee, I consider it essential. Once we have something that was not essential in our lives before but seemingly makes our lives better it becomes essential ........ Is that the problem of progress ?

Not really electric cars but on topic based on comparing Batteries and Motors verses Petrol and Engines.

I have been doing a lot of gardening at my sons place over the Christmas work shut down and it is looking better. He went to mow the grass on the 31st and the silly old petrol lawn mower wouldn’t start. A friend of his wants a free one to fix so we gave it to him that day and I splurged at a end of year sale buying an EGO lawn mower, blower and whipper snipper just before the shop closed, from the reviews of electric battery gardening equipment I read it seems EGO is one of the best. The EGO is 56 Volt battery and one review said it is the Tesla of Lawn-mowers, most are two 18V batteries to make a 36V machine . As I don’t have anything battery operated yet I thought I might as well go for the EGO.

I mowed the grass, whipper snipper along the back stairs and used the blower to clean the driveway. Everything worked well and I am very happy, the mower is just as heavy if not more that my petrol one but with handles to lift it with it is much easier to carry up the stairs to the higher grass areas. My wife was also very happy as she didn’t really hear the mower and blower from inside.

What does worry me is the cost of the batteries, the 5Ah battery for the Lawn Mower is $349 the Blower uses the same, the Whipper Snipper has the 2.5Ah at $199, I could buy 7.5Ah or 10Ah for even more but I think the batteries I got with the machines are fine for my usage. I hope they last a long time, say they only last 5 years and I replace with the same that is $900 or $180 a year. I used to fill a 25L Jerry can with 98ron petrol for about $40 and that would last about a year using the mower, whipper snipper, chain saw and the pressure washer at both here and my sons place. Using 98ron means if the fuel goes off a bit things still start even a year later, I never had issues with my garden petrol tools after I stopped using 91 petrol and switched to 98. I will keep my petrol chain saw as I don't use it that often and it is in very good condition, and the pressure washer as nothing electric come close to the PSI it has, so still have to fill the jerry can every now and then.

So based on the costs above I have worked out even if the electricity coming out of the power point to charge the batteries was free, the batteries need to last 22.5 years otherwise petrol will work out cheaper that just the cost of replacement batteries.

So am I right or am I missing something? Is the cost of lithium just too expensive to make battery machines cost effective compared to equivalent petrol machines?

Is it that petrol is cheaper in Australia than elsewhere because we only have huge taxes on it rather than extremely huge taxes like elsewhere. But everything else we buy like electric garden tools, cars etc. are a lot more expensive than elsewhere because the importers have a monopoly (and have for 200 years) and love to rip us off?

If batteries were taxed like fossil fuels would electric machinery make economic sense at all?

However it is nice to have quieter machines to use

Chris,

I have a 236v Electric rotavator/tiller. I was dubious when I bought it, it turns out I was wrong. It will run for about 30 mins and because of the torque from the motor it will cut through roots and things that would have clogged a similar sized petrol version. 30 mins is enough for me, but I can accept for some that a second battery set would be needed.
I have an elderly, but functional ride on mower. When it dies it will be replaced by an electric one.
All my workshop power tools are battery, as is my daily drive.

Are Lithium Ion batteries the future? I have no answer, but they are quiet and need less faffing about with.
Do they make financial sense? Depends how you configure a lifetime discounted cash flow but if you run a DCF on garden tools and workshop tools you probably need help.

Don't know if I'd like an ICE pillar drill!

When my ICE mower needs a service (or far less likely, replacing) I will go battery power.

Had my battery powered Bosch for 2 1/2 years batteries are still fine mine are only 2Ah 36V, only need a single battery in the summer couple of charges in full jungle mode, I only have a modest lawn though. It was cheaper to by this mower than replace the Hayter cast ally chassis which snapped on my petrol mower that didn't last 2 years! I went battery as mains cords are a PITA

We have a long drive with lawn to one side, an electric mower isn’t practical (don’t like the idea of a 75 metre extension lead) and my previous petrol mower was temperamental so I went for a Mountfield battery mower. 4 1/2 years so far and it’s as good as the day I bought it, pretty quiet and light. One of the best things I’ve bought for gardening. The other side of the drive has a high hedge and I use a GTech long pole trimmer, the battery is tiny but lasts forever before It needs recharging. Battery is definitely the way to go for tools IMHO but I’m still not convinced about cars yet.

I think it's pretty inevitable we'll start converting to battery for our garden tools over the next year or three. We'll probably go for Stihl kit, but it's going to be be flipping expensive even if we go for the fewest possible batteries we can get away with.