Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Electric Cars

I recently test drove a Kia Sportage. Self charge hybrid. Nice car, seamless battery/ice changes BUT really frequent. If you don’t like stop start on your car this will drive you nuts! Seeing the rev counter ( digital screen) jump from zero on battery to engine revs after so short a distance was odd. I drove on a low traffic flat road with a light right foot. Still very short distance on the battery. I wonder what effect on 5he ice starter and battery would be with such frequent stop-start cycles.
We have ordered an ICE version for est delivery in July.
EV and hybrids are est December delivery!
Not gone for full EV due to cost of ownership comparisons despite our tendency to keep cars for longer periods. Possibly on a PCP to leave options for a sooner change if circumstances warrant it.
As an aside, on Pistonheads Tesla forum there are horror stories of exceptionally long repair times due to lack of spares. Even pretty minor crash damage results in weeks or months delays. Tesla forum is highlighting many issues with software updates changing things without informing the owners. Stories of moving touchscreen functions resulting in having to search for where they are moved to. Also glitches with the auto braking, lane control systems doing odd things. Owners are switching systems off as a result but the updates reinstate them.
The recent tv prog “Should You Buy An EV” ( or similar title) was interesting. The bottom line problem seemed to be the charging infrastructure. Still hugely inadequate and unreliable. In one example the presenter ( driving a Mustang EV) tried paying at a charge point ( lampost I think ) It took his money but no charge to his battery! There are far too many broken charge points as well plus a lack of standardised systems/ costing.
At some stage we will probably go EV but when?
I’ve saved the tv prog to watch again.

Sospan,

after 12 months with a Tesla M3 my conclusion is that EVs only make sense if you can mostly charge at home. The Tesla Supercharger network works well assuming you have a Tesla,, but only if there are chargers in the areas where you go.
We use the C Class to go long distances... the Tesla hias become a local runabout.

I'm toying with changing to a medium sized plug in hybrid next year.

Interesting, so even with high fuel prices you are considering a hybrid. It will be interesting to see other peoples experience of EV's over time and whether the real world economic benefits and reliability of EV's holds true.

Changing again? Just as well you do not use a private number plate Peter. The DVLA would not be able to keep up.

John, I'm still wary about Tesla service, support and durability.
The only EV brand that is in any way viable for longer trips is the Tesla, by virtue of the Supercharger network.
So in the absence of another brand that can use the Supercharger network a plug in hybrid seems to make sense: the Mercedes C300E has a real world battery range of 40 miles. this means that for 70% of our use it would be an EV, but for longer jaunts it would be a mix of petrol and electric vehicle.

This is not bad for a PHEV, many have electric ranges that are frankly a joke - the Mini Countryman PHEV for example has a 26 mile electric range, so more like 18 in the depths of winter.

I've never really liked the idea of lugging around an ICE together with all its associated paraphernalia, it seems a bit of a liability both for electric efficiency and reliability. But then we're very lucky, we are able to keep a couple of ICE vehicles for the long-range stuff. I realise that many are not in such a position and for them a PHEV could be a good solution.

I think the government have also clocked that lugging two separate power trains around is not really sensible and I do wonder if a hybrid is actually cheaper to run than a fuel efficient petrol car, or even a diesel heaven forbid. Also at what point, if ever, the hybrid becomes greener than that efficient petrol car.

Hybrids do seem to be worth it but I can't work out exactly how much extra weight it adds. Looking at the Toyota website the curb weights for the various 2.5L petrol Hybrid models range from 1705kg to 1760kg where the only petrol 2.5L available is 1705kg. Assuming it is the same specifications as the 1760kg then the weight of the Hybrid adds 55kg which is the same as driving with a full or empty petrol tank. Interesting that options like fancy 10 way power seats etc. must add as much as the Hybrid motors and battery.

The Toyota RAV4 Hybrid is one of Australia's most popular car and for a 4WD car that can tow a trailer to the tip, go on dirt roads etc. with no issues it is very economical. Compare the following

RAV4 Petrol 7.0L/100km
RAV4 Hybrid 4.7L/100km
My Octavia 6.8L/100km

I really like my Octavia but the RAV4 Hybrid is cheaper on petrol and is a more capable car towing etc. My son has one, he is extremely happy with it and trying to talk me into upgrading. As I said is a previous post on this topic I put my name down thinking I will get one for my wife to sell the Skoda with the highest km's. The waiting list for all new cars now reminds me of Morgan's in the 1980's so there is still time for other options to appear on the market.

So I think the opposite is true, that EV's with long range are not really sensible due to lugging around a huge battery. The head of Toyota said using resources to build the battery for one long range EV is not sensible when the same resources can batteries for 7 hybrids and do more benefit reducing CO2 than one long range EV. Another quote from another manufacturer but I can't remember who said that a long range EV battery weighs the same whether it is charged or flat, a petrol hybrid is much more sensible for long range because you only need to carry the extra weight of petrol when you fill the car up.

I feel the sensible option is either a Hybrid as a both town car and trip car or if the family often need two cars then the EV with the shortest range suitable and use it in town and another petrol car for trips and when two cars are needed. Of course that means two or three cars because you also have to have a Morgan or equivalent toy otherwise you would not be on this website.

Even with the current high petrol prices it is still cheaper to pay for petrol for one uneconomical car than registration on a second car. Car registration and insurance is my biggest expense.



Yes my sons RAV4 Hybrid is odd as it changes from battery only to petrol as the speed increases, It will not use battery only above 30kph so will swap. But as a Toyota mechanic he drove lots of them beforehand and doesn't mind it.



At 52cents per kw compared to charging at home for 22cents, or using solar during the day and losing 8cents on the feed in I would have to agree. 100km at 18kw (what my bosses Tesla is getting) means at 52 cents $9.52 per 100km, Yes cheaper than my Octavia with petrol at $2 meaning $13.60 but only 6 months ago it was $1.50 so about the same.

To add to my own confusion I have a very early solar system with a 20 year feed in contract at 47 cents valid for another 6 years, so if I charge at home during the day it is not much cheaper than using the super chargers (I would be better of charging at night and using power at 22cents). Once that contract finishes then charging an EV at home with a new more powerful solar system could make a lot more sense than now.

But Toyota Prius hybrids seem to do a very good job long term eg 60+ mpg in mixed use, and have proven reliable (just SO fugly). I had a Mondeo hybrid in the US as a rental and was surprised it got up to 35 US mpg even with highway/urban driving, and a neat drive. PHEVs can of course be more complex but might also mean simply a bigger battery over a normal hybrid. For long instance motorways then you really want diesel - I read a recent review getting 70mpg mixed driving in a C class !!! But of course the UK has turned anti-diesel (and where I live anti-car )….

When looking at the Kia change the PHEV version appears more sensible than either the self charge or pure EV.
Why?
In our case the approx 30 miles battery range would cover most of our mileage. The trips to Cardiff ( 60 miles each way) that are becoming more regular due to a new grand daughter mean partial petrol saving so a bonus. The cost of ownership is more of an issue due to up front cost, ICE servicing still needed etc. The battery /ICE configuration would fit better with more battery capacity but add to the cost.
In my view the charging infrastructure for availability and standardisation needs significant improvement to make EV variations a real option.