Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Diagnostic Timing Sensor DRC-1110

Hello everyone,

I am new to this Forum. So I am not quiet sure if I am posting my question in the correct way.

I just got accepted. I would have a question concerning my Morgan 8+.

My Morgan +8 has a Rover SD1 V8 3500 engine. In front of the crankshaft is a timing sensor DRC1110. With this sensor you can check the rpm and the ignition. There is a plug you can connect a diagnostic timingbook. I would like to buy this timingbook even if it is useless. Does anybody know what device is connected to this plug? See link below for the picutre.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-DRC1110

Thank you very much for your help.

Ondrej

Sorry to say I can't really help

I have an original factory Rover SD1 workshop manual, the sensor is shown in the exploded view of the engine, just referred to as a 'transducer and pickup lead'. Under Ignition the manual states that the timing can be set via the engine diagnostic socket (showing a drawing of the sensor), and to connect the 'diagnostic equipment'. There is no detail of the diagnostic equipment, and there is no mention in the 'specialist equipment' section

In the workshop manual the catalog code for the special equipment begins with SMD, for example the cruise control fast check is a SMD 4050. It may be possible they made an ignition diagnostic in that series. I do also have some Lucas diagnostic tools for Rover, they begin with YWB, for example a YWB129 is an electronic choke analyzer. Maybe you can keep a check on ebay, or other auctions to see if anything appears

My understanding is that the diagnostic socket on the SD1 fell out of use as most garages would use a stroboscopic light, so maybe very few diagnostic devices were sold.

Hi Ondrej,

I have been sent here to help you out.

Firstly, congratulations on your purchase. And I admire your curiosity about your car and how it functions. That characteristic has become sadly rare among new Morgan owners and all others as well.

Yes, I too was curious about that silly looking device you refer to hanging dangerously and unconnected in the front of the engine when I first obtained my first of three Sd1 Morgan Plus 8s decades ago. For the future, you should know that this engine fueling format is called a "Flapper", the most commonly used EFI system in history. Morgan used it on Plus 8s and Plus 4s from 1984 to mid-1990 (but not in the USA aside from a handful). The scores of other marques that used it include Porsche, VandenPlatz, Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Lotus, Ferrari, Peugeot, Nissan, Renault, Volvo, Saab, TVR, Marcos...

1. Firstly you should know that Morgan does not use all of the parts of the engines and their fuelling systems that they are provided with by Rover, and later Land Rover. This is one example.

2. During my ownership of my Morgans, I have seen knowledge disappear among suppliers, while for a few of is, lore increases. After all your car was made 35 years ago and most of the current Rimmer staff wasn't even born then. In a nutshell, Rimmer misnames this device., and certainly does not know why it is there in doing so. You see it is NOT a diagnostic device. Its proper name is a CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR and was used to badly adjust the ignition timing. Morgan never connected it. Even the 90% of the Rover and Land Rover Factory Manuals of the day do not refer to it. And when you think of it, placing a diagnostic plug underneath the front of a car would be the height of silliness. Why not under the dash as logic dictates and other cars do? The device and its dangerous pointy bracket should be removed. It merely adds physical insult to pedestrians and pets you sadly hit. They always end up under the car. The Factory did not remove it as they were paranoid (for other reasons) of the then new EFI and did not want to chance voiding the Rover warranty. They had already done so for some early cars.

On the very good side, Flappers are VERY owner friendly and their EFI systems are, with one or two exceptions, are well supplied with inexpensive components (though prices have spiked in the last decade) until this day, far more than later Plus 8 EFI systems. which can end up on stands for want of parts for long periods. The most elaborate guide to your Plus 8 variant that I know of is on a site called gomog https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/FlapperPLUS8.htm

There is no longer a diagnostic reader easily available A few were made by Bosch (part#068410002 or ETJ002.02) but they are no longer made or popular as the system is fully diagnosable with a simple 10£ multimeter and this device, if you find one, costs 1000£ with no guarantee it still functions. You will find what you need in section 5 DIAGNOSIS & REPAIR. I usually diagnose at the computer plug as this will include the wiring from and to the components. But if you are leery of that at first, you can diagnose the components directly with the codicil that this will not show a wiring issue.

If you need advice, contact me direct through gomog. I do not regularly browse this forum.

Good luck!

Lorne

1984 3.5 Morgan Plus 8 Flapper
1990 4.6 Morgan Plus 8 Flapper
2002 4.8 Morgan Plus 8 Flapper (a one off MMC Special)

P.S. Well done Mike! Your sources are less than perfect, but much closer than Rimmer. Yes a crankshaft sensor is a transducer but that is simple a generic term form a device that changes one type of energy to another. Like your Hotwire speedo transducer, it takes rotation speed and changes it to an electrical signal. A strobe light give you, the owner, the ability to costlessly change the timing, something models after yours do not allow. With a 950 kilo one does not want the timing of a 2900 kilo 4x4.

Hi Mike,

thank you for your advice. I have also a Workshop Manual for Rover 3500 from Haynes. They say the same like you. But nobody tells anythink about the equipment.

Lorne sais that the timing sensor is a Flapper, used as one of the first used in the EFI system. My Morgan is from 1979.

best regards Ondrej

Hi Lorne,

this your friend from the mountains in Switzerland. Thank you for the contact. I will write you an email later to discus the Flapper.

Ondrej

Onderj, The sensor is only indicating crankshaft position for whatever device is is designed to be connected to.

The term Flapper that Lorne used only indirectly applies to the sensor pictured . Flapper is a loose term to identify a different sensor which has a flap within it and which moves relative to the amount of air that the engine is drawing in, which then feeds an electrical input to the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) to be part of the information used to create the correct fuel and air mixture.

The flapper is an airflow measuring device.

Lorne would have further explained had you contacted him as he suggested, but happy to try to help out.

Thank you George

Forgive me Ondrej. I read problems and not names. Hope you are well!

I beleive you have a Swiss variant. Interesting to see you have that odd crank position sensor. Morgan-wise have only seen it rarely. My first Plus 8 had it, a 1984
flapper (officially a Bosch L-Jetronic Rover V8) Some variants are named after the major component of their fuelling systems and I have seen it on California TR8s..the
ver first Rover Flappers in 1979/80), though VERY different from the later Morgans Flappers. Switzerland had its own variant Plus 8s and Rovers and Land Rovers.as
did other countries and especially North America and Downunder, where a large part (often the largest) percentage of Plus 8s were sent until Germany became the big
Plus 8 buyer. Sorry to have confused you.

In any event, carb'ed Plus 8s (any variant) and Flappers (any variant of them as well) have no diagnostic plug. And beware, lots of nonsense out there. Every few years
another wave of "diagnostic programs" come out for now obsolete systems which are infinitely more owner friendly than anything made in the last 25 years.. The
amateur consumer market will buy ANYTHING! With 50% of Plus 8s being variants, it is prudent to know who you are asking advice or buying parts from.

Meanwhile, I would take that thingie off while taking pictures of every step. And you should have other differences from the cars here, like the North American and
Downunder fellows, merely not the same as theirs or compenents in a different timeline.

Your friend Lorne..now in South America.

I quoted the text in the official Rover SD1 workshop manual, which uses terminology which is rather dated. The main purpose was to show that there is no information regarding the diagnostic device you are looking for. The Rover workshop manual refers to 'transducer and pickup lead' which we would now call a crankshaft position sensor, however in this case it doesn't provide any function in the normal daily running of the engine. The Rover manual refers to this 'transducer and pickup lead' as an 'engine diagnostic socket' but in this case it has a very limited use and is not what we would now commonly refer to as a diagnostic socket.

Your original quest was to ask where you could obtain a 'timingbook' - considering the lack of any positive information in the official workshop manual , and your Haynes manual, I think that such a device was not in common use, we don't have any evidence that it existed out in the wild, so it seems most unlikely you will be able to locate one.

If you do have what is referred to as 'flapper' type of fueling system, then Lorne and gomog are your best source of information

Hope you have some opportunities to enjoy driving your Plus 8

Hi Mike,

thanks for your information from 29.6.22. I enjoy my Plus 8 even with a transducer nobody knows what is it good for. I have to accept it.
Ondrej