Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Safety Recall - Brakes

I bought My +8 new in 2002, it had, by a considerable margin, many more faults than any other new car I owned, which includes a couple of TVRs a Caterham* and a hand built Classic Mini (ERA Turbo), from memory it had well over 30 faults ranging from serious to trivial during the first two years of ownership. With 5 miles on the clock it dumped several pints of water, with 5.5 miles on the clock it broke down

But the thing is, when things were fixed they stayed fixed and it has been reliable and largely fault free (except for some over heating issues) ever since. The fear is that will not be the case with the CX models.

*The Caterham was fault free for the 18 years I owned it with the exception of a failed Otter switch when it was about ten years old.

^^
This has been my experience too. Over my six mogs the first year has always been rather sad. But once fixed by yourself or a competent garage the fixes stay fixed and the cars become very reliable and hardwearing too.
Longstanding difficulties like stupidly low sumps etc. excepted.
Nick

The first ever noggin I went to, years ago, I was the youngest person there by years, probably decades!
Pretty well all of the old fellas there looked as though they could have stripped and rebuilt their car at the side of the road and fixed any issue at all.

The (relative) simplicity of the trad design, honed and fettled over many decades to an acceptable level of mediocrity, is generally accepted, I would suggest, to be about as good as it can be.
They were rubbish when new, I've had a couple of new ones!
A pre loved car that has had its issues sorted has always been a better proposition in my opinion.

The factory are just about capable of building acceptable trad cars, they've had plenty of practice though. The (dwindling) network of dealers and specialists have got the factory out of the sh!t countless times over the decades.

The factory are not capable of building anything else other than trad cars.

They have grand aspirations to be a big time sports car builder. They are not now, have never been and will never be.

I really want the factory to succeed, I'd love them to keep building cars well into the future.
More complexity is not the way though when you have a limited design and development budget and only the parts bins of the big guys to choose from.

I think that was a fair assessment until a few years ago. Morgans were relatively simple cars, reasonably affordable and most faults could be fixed by enthusiastic owners or knowledgeable dealers with the support of the factory which included a good spares back-up.

None of the above are applicable to the current generation of Morgans. The product is now too complex for the average owner to "improve" and the after-sales support doesn't appear to be fit for purpose.

Morgan need to up their game considerably in line with the increasing cost and complexity of their product and the reasonable expectations of those who buy them.

I have great sympathy for the fact that MMC needed two new contemporary models in order to simply remain in the market. Besides, changes are only ever a point of criticism from the point of view of users who have grown fond of the old one. In the 1970s there was an appalling outcry when Porsche first fitted a brake booster when changing from the 2.7 G model to the 3.0 SC. In the foreseeable future, many of the new Morgan customers will no longer know how a Trad drove...with all its strengths and weaknesses. It's simply the next evolutionary step, but Morgan's positioning still remains true to itself with the CX models. The shape, the open riding experience, the individuality. No one will soon complain that the car has better suspension and more modern cornering than a Trad ever could.
Now, let's move on to the problems discussed in this thread. How should we classify them? Are they the typical teething troubles or are they systematic error results of a small series manufacturer who could never iron them out? Because the high-tech basis behind the Morgan's shape retention can only be handled by large car companies?
My gut feeling is that they are teething problems. Just two more years and it will be much more reliable. I believe this because MMC, unlike Toyota for example, only has to worry about three models being built unchanged for as long as possible (except for constant fine tuning like better seats etc).

To look on the bright side, everything that has been noticed as a CX error so far are things that are not extremely fundamentally a design error. I personally consider a lack of ground clearance worse than an unreliable radiator or a brake master cylinder as an example. The lack of ground clearance will never be changed...except for a few millimetres by fiddling. There is so far only one weak point of all CX cars that I have read so far. That is simply the way the Plus Six can unleash power when you are reckless. But even that is a question of time, because the right drivers will select themselves. And with the Plus Four, you only hear the best about the performance in relation to the car, I haven't driven a CX yet...it's all just reading.

Word will also spread among younger potential buyers that they could expect initial issues with a new Morgan. But will that stop them from wanting one? Let's assume that not all potential fans are stupid and slick naive "consumers" who equate the reliability of a Morgan with that of a Toyota. Besides...if you look on the net there are horror stories from car manufacturers where you wouldn't expect it. Maybe MMC should have to "educate" their new customers a bit, just like Peter Morgan did it. Maybe MMC has to be very accommodating in the first year, and tell a new story in case of early quirks. Not like in the past: "They are all like this", but e.g. "our handcrafted unique pieces always need some time until everything is perfect". "You are not a guinea pig but a valued customer in an illustrious circle whose car we will optimise in the maturing phase of the first year, because that is our claim and this procedure reflects our handcrafted approach“.
This is how I could envisage MMC's near positive future.

Word will also spread among younger potential buyers that they could expect initial issues with a new Morgan. But will that stop them from wanting one? Let's assume that not all potential fans are stupid and slick naive "consumers" who equate the reliability of a Morgan with that of a Toyota. Besides...if you look on the net there are horror stories from car manufacturers where you wouldn't expect it. Maybe MMC should have to "educate" their new customers a bit, just like Peter Morgan did it. Maybe MMC has to be very accommodating in the first year, and tell a new story in case of early quirks. Not like in the past: "They are all like this", but e.g. "our handcrafted unique pieces always need some time until everything is perfect". "You are not a guinea pig but a valued customer in an illustrious circle whose car we will optimise in the maturing phase of the first year, because that is our claim and this procedure reflects our handcrafted approach“.
This is how I could envisage MMC's near positive future.

Yes Heinz, this is the only way forward otherwise VC type owners who are not family based may lose the taste for this project and withdraw from the company leaving Morgan ???

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Whilst I have only driven a CX demonstrator, my initial impression was the CX has lifted the standard of product for Morgans by producing a much better ride quality than the traditional Morgan, it felt a more complete car, with the potential to undertake long journeys in relative comfort and with ease especially with an automatic option in the line up. It was such a step change imho, I felt it was easily comparable to many modern convertibles from main stream manufacturers such as Mercedes, BMW, Porsche but clothed in a Morgan style skin. The quality of the interior e.g. the availability of air conditioning, a relatively sophisticated sound system (for Morgan) re-enforces the main stream product type expectation. I could have just as easily been driving the wife's Mercedes cabriolet when in the CX it felt such a step change when jumping straight out of a trad into the CX.

As I made that mental comparison of the CX to most modern cabriolets, the realisation that there are no electric windows, no electric hood, the cockpit is not entirely guaranteed to be waterproof, there's limited storage space for luggage, no boot to secure personal effects out of sight, not a great deal of cabin security. limited servicing and repair network usually work has to be booked weeks in advance because of limited capacity and so on with a pretty step purchase price, When one looks at safety, many cabriolets have considerable rollover protection, a proliferation of airbags, and lots of driving aids from traction control, to brake assistance to collision avoidance intervention. I was left wondering what are the advantages of a CX over other cabriolets?

To get the totally open motoring experience, you have to stop the car get out take the roof down manually, remove the side screens and find somewhere to put them so they don't get scratched or damaged and the exact same reverse operation should it start to rain. Whereas in most modern cabriolets you just press a button and it all happens in seconds rather than minutes and all from the comfort of your seat often whilst still on the move and for in some cases for much less money. With places to secure your coats, luggage and personal effects securely from prying eyes and so on. And then for a new Morgan buyer, it seemed less of a compelling product, its traditional look being the only really distinguishing feature with a considerable number of compromises in its use. I understand why many trad Morgan owners have bought a CX ,as it is a more complete, easier to live with product but not quite so sure of its enduring appeal to young buyers with so many other equally or more compelling products to choose from. Can the cache of being hand built, carry or justify the product, to the throw away society. When it comes to saving the planet, there's eg no stop/start of the engine in traffic, even the humble Mercedes cabriolet now comes with an electric motor assistance to allow much smaller less polluting engines to be used and there's a clear range of EV products in the Mercedes brand to attract and create brand loyalty quite early on.

It’s funny, as one of these new “young” buyers (I’m 34) you guys often mention when despairing for the future of Morgan, I read your post with interest. All the things you list as positives are the reasons I decided I was finally able to join the family (comfort, automatic, speakers, air conditioning, and ride quality). All the “negatives” (slower manual hood, time to remove side screens, having the elements inside the car, limitations in terms of what you can bring with you due to space, limited safety features that allow for those traditional design elements inside and out, and the absence of driver aids) are the reasons I went with a Morgan and not a 718 or alternative (though I really can’t think of anything else that could go in the immediately comparable category). My view is I was buying into the Morgan experience. I wanted those slower, traditional, more hands-on experiential aspects. My partner commented a few weeks ago after a 4 day tour of the Lakes in a new Plus Four, that she was surprised people thought it was a car for older people. In her view it is a young persons car. It lacks the sealed creature comforts of a Porsche or BMW or equivalent. It’s hard to get into and out of. You get wet in the rain. It’s noisy at speeds above 45mph. In her view, and mine as well, it’s a fantastic car to have and experience adventures from. “It’s like camping on wheels, except your tent isn’t very waterproof.”

All that’s to say, I think I might be proof that Morgan got it right with the younger crowd and new buyers. What you listed as draw backs were in my view the selling features. Morgan can never be a Porsche competitor on paper. But out on the road, exploring a new place or driving a favourite country lane, there’s no comparison in my books. Morgan is the only and best choice for an adventure.

This man gets it. Well done Sir.

Great to hear, lets hope you guys are the norm rather than the exception.............I just wonder as with most things you mention, can be easily achieved in any open top car , just buy a humble Midget and you will experience exactly the same kind of motoring.

I tend to watch who is driving convertibles these days, especially in the summer roof down and it never ceases to amaze me the number of convertibles driven with the roof up on a sunny day. Most drivers roof down tend to be the more mature variety. A neighbour's daughter has had a Mercedes cabriolet from new for about 3 years now and has never had the roof down.......

Mind you I often got a few comments when driving around in the rain or on cold days even in the snow with the roof down, as long as the mohair was dry so it could be folded without permanently creasing the hood, the roof would be down, maybe some of us are made of different stuff. But I also know which manufacturers convertibles I'd rathe be in if push come to shove when exploring the limits of a sports car.