Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Another senior appointment

True the mid '70s Morgans were a budget sports car ... mine had unpainted wing overlaps, untreated woodwork and mild steel bulkhead and inner wings ... plenty of rot of various types for me to get my resto teeth into .... however, it was 45 years old and even having been trialled and hillclimbed most of it's life was still bowling its rather tatty carcass up the road and off the startline the summer before I rescued it out of a racing-pal's back yard ... can't think any of the other cars on that list fared better .... unlike the majority of Morgans, only a vanishing few of their contemporaries from the same price area lasted half as long .... and it was relatively easily and cheaply fixed by me (very much the 'handy ordinary bloke' it was originally aimed at) in my woodshed.

The fact Morgan has survived when its major contemporary marques went to the wall is a testament to it maintaining an appeal to a certain segment of drivers ... whether that be 'discerning', 'eccentric' or 'bonkers' I leave to you and your mirror 🙂

K

Ps ... by finding a rough example and doing the work myself (as was pretty normal back in Morgan's heyday) I ended up with a fully refreshed 4/4 to a standard that suits me rather than a concours judge for a total of around £10k ... still a bargain 'real' sportscar in my book .... and with all dodgy metal and wood replaced, cuprinoled and stainless patching in the danger areas, I hope that (disasters and eco-warriors aside) it will be whizzing about for another 50 years even if I'm not!

K

Dave I would be very interested to know who you think the CX Morgen's competitors are.

I never intended to buy a sports car. My wife always wanted to own a classic car. So we went to a morning dealer. I test drove a used 2010 roadster that my wife liked so much. Was not mine. Then the salesman told me to drive a PlusFour. What can I say ... I was immediately thrilled. The new combined with old design has thrilled me. I know of no manufacturer that offers this combination.
Of course, this is a niche market. But I think this is the only way that MMC exists in the future.

It's not as much a case of who Morgan's competitors are, but more likely who do Morgan aspire to compete with.
I think that the factory (management team) have aspirations to become real car manufacturers and mix it with the big name competition.

I think that one of the main reasons that Morgan have survived so long is that they built a car that was so outdated, so ridiculous, so niche, that they had no direct competitors.
When you combine a product like that with a fanatically loyal group of owners/buyers you have a guaranteed recipe for success.

When other British sports car manufacturers modernised and updated or developed their product to meet the demands of progress, Morgan didn't........ Morgan survived........

They have now entered a market where it is possible to draw comparisons to other vehicles, price being a principal one.
Buyers at the price point that Morgan are now at, demand a level of sophistication and quality that Morgan have never been able to achieve in the last 110 years or so....!

Trad chassis cars are basic, that's the beauty of them for me. When you start adding 'creature comforts' and the sort of tech that you might find in a robot built and computer designed German sports car you've lost the point of a Morgan....imho.....

I doubt that Morgan had much choice in the decision to cease the Trad range, as the difficulty in sourcing engines that meet the requirements of the regs now in place and being compatible with such an outdated platform would be insurmountable (probably). I can't think of a manufacturer who is likely to (A) Make a suitable engine and (B) be willing to sell Morgan a few small batches every now and then.
And what engine should that be? 1.6, 2.0 or a V8? Or all 3?
Ideas that involve re-jigging the old Trads with better suspension and power plants are all non-starters IMO. Far too involved across the board for a share of 600 cars produced per year in total.

I still lack the comparison with whom. I have not understood that.
With a Porsche 911 or with a BMW Z4? In my eyes, these are completely different vehicles that do not arouse the emotions of a Morgan.



And exactly this statement applies to the CX generation.
I couldn't have put it better myself. That's exactly why I ordered a PlusFour.
I am convinced that out of this emotion there are enough buyers worldwide for the small company MMC for their cars. Into mass production, of course, this can not work.

They have a suitable engine in the new 3 wheeler, ideal for an entry level 4 wheeler. Not everybody has 80k for a toy when you can buy an MX5 for 30k.

I suspect Morgan`s survival was dependant on many factors over the years, and when interest in Morgans seemed to greatly reduce in the UK when the rest of the motor car industry had adopted modernisation, apparently Morgan became increasingly dependant on exports to the US as the home market diminished..?

Morgan had a go at modernising in the form of the Plus 4 Plus, which seems not to have worked out to well, so what to do.. carry on with that which they knew and hope to survive..? It seems JHJ had quite a job on his hands to try to convince Morgan to modernise long after the Plus 4 Plus had failed to grab the Morgan customer base, but I suspect it is possible that the memories of that adventure may have left a scar or two, thus Peter was perhaps less than keen to go modern even in terms of production techniques, Charles being of the next generation, perhaps less so..?

As for the survival of the trad in what can only be described as a hostile and increasingly legislative environment, I can only imagine that there were folk in high places who were keen that such an old established British motor manufacturing company should be supported by some means, and if turning a blind legislative eye in their direction might no longer work, then perhaps adjustments to the laws could the best way forward, and as such may have extended the life of the trad well into an era where dinosaurs had long since become extinct..?

It seems legislation elsewhere was catching up with the Trad and that Bill Fink in the US put a great deal of effort into matching compliance to evolving regs for new vehicles there.

By whatever mix of hard work, determination and good fortune the Trad survived for as long as it did matters not a jot, that it did is that which really matters, and I for one feel most fortunate to have been afforded the privilege to buy and enjoy my pseudo vintage mid 80`s + 8 Morgan back in 2002, and that I am still allowed to run it on the road today... As for tomorrow.. Who knows..?

As for alterations to legislation and the..err.. loopholes provided to ensure continuation of aspects of motor manufacture and re-manufacture, it seems there may be a rather large section of the economy of the UK and elsewhere reliant on a degree of flexibility in motor related legislation. Perhaps a recent example of that might be the mention of the name Alvis and new thinking relative to that marque recently posted on this forum, though the list of old marques and models being re-invented in a variety of ways seems endless, just that Morgan have managed to do it in-house, well at least to more of a degree than most..?

I have been interested in 911`s since the 60`s and recently returned to Porsche ownership after a couple of decades of owning my +8. During my non- Porsche ownership years I maintained a degree of contact with Porsche friends, a time when it seems there have been a few companies have set up to re-manufacture, upgrade and backdate 911 derivatives. In more recent times even Porsche themselves seem to have adopted a different ethos relative to supporting their cars which have long since been out of production, now having found interest in promoting and re-supplying parts for their older cars, perhaps as a means of growing or holding on to it`s customer base..? Apparently one third of Porsches ever produced are still around today... I wonder if Morgan could beat that statistic, it would be nice to think so...? (-:

I tripped over the vid in the link below which might be of interest to some (?) by way of observing a different evolutionary path from that of Morgan`s Trad, a path which was taken by a company who set out initially to improve upon the 911 and did so for many years before evolving into manufacturing a new iteration based upon the original 911 concept`s outline.... The end product is not a Porsche... BUT...?

https://youtu.be/gN_U7VRqbxw

If a new CX is not for you, then there is a large 2nd hand Trad Morgan market that. should remain relatively buoyant in the short to mid term.
This is good news (surely?) for present owners of Trad cars (me included).

Agreed, An of course CX used prices are coming down

I recall chatting with Charles back in late 2012, we were talking about the then new M3W and how full the order books were. Charles told me the M3W was beginning to bring a whole new genre to Morgan ownership, which he defined as both a blessing and a curse. One wonders if the new ownership and CX platform are creating the same effect.