Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Sports Cats & Engine Management Light

Thanks Barry, this sounds encouraging

The good news is my MoT tester is very accommodating, being an old hot rodder and general petrol head he always made sure my fully decatted TVR Chimaera passed the emissions test every year without fail. An old 1950's designed Rover V8 is hardly the cleanest engine, especially when it has no cats at all, fortunately there's always a little Corsa or Fiesta in the workshop that will step in to give the required readings we need

TBH I'm more worried about the engine management light, the ECU throwing fault codes and the engine management system going into limp home mode, so given you're getting no mil light on the dash with the original Morgan ecu remapped by Wolf performance, and that's the way I'm going, I may be overly worrying about the issue.

Given we now know ECU used by Morgan on the Duratec Plus 4 is a Visteon manufactured Levanta 32 bit module known as the 'Black Oak' using the Freescale PowerPC architecture, we also know it can be read and reprogrammed using Ford WDS (Worldwide Diagnostic System). Actually it's just a Mk3 Mondeo ECU, so as I understand it anyone who has the Ford Worldwide Diagnostic System can easily write out the post cat lambda sensor with his WDS handheld.

UPDATE:

I dropped Monty off with Matt at Fusion Fabrications on Friday for the new exhaust, I've gone for a full system from custom tubular long header manifold to tailpipe. As part of my list of questions and expectations we discussed catalytic converters, Matt recommended a German made sports cat which I've been reassured is very high quality, I believe he brand was HJS.

https://hjs-motorsport.de/en/products/tuning/universal-catalysts

The HJS blurb states: "Our 200 cpsi catalysts are the right component for self-designed exhaust systems. You will achieve higher horsepower with less backpressure without having problems with your EOBD or MOT inspection", how true that last bit is remains to be proved.

However, I'm reliably informed a lot of the problems people have is down to the fact there are a lot of cheap cats out there that just don't perform well or last, the way manufacturers of the cheaper cats cut costs is to use less precious metals so the number of cells isn't always the most accurate way to make your choice. Apparently a good quality 200 cell cat will often outperform a cheaper 400 cell cat, and its often the cheaper 200 cell cats that tend cause the dreaded engine management light especially after a year or so in service.

So with all this taken into account and given I have an understanding/sympathetic MoT tester I've decided to go brave and specified a 200 cell version of the German brand offered by Matt, it's still a risk but at least I know it's a quality product. Having held one up to the light in Matt's workshop and seen the cells it definitely looks like it'll flow really well, and ultimately if there are any issues I will look to have the post cat lambda sensor signal ignored by the ECU, apparently this can be achieved by anyone with the Ford Worldwide Diagnostic System.

I'll post some photos of my new system when it's complete and fitted in a few weeks, and confirm if the engine management light stays off?

Please do the outcome will be interesting

It's an interesting project.
I wondered why you didn't go down the 'usual' Librands route?
If Fusion Fabrications can undercut Librands I'm sure they will quickly gain some customers......... me for one as I'm not too far away.......!😁

Julian, you don't need to pay the premium Librands price, these chaps are familiar with bespoke systems for Mogs

Some of the Speedmog competitors use these
https://www.stainless-exhaust.com/

Krazy Horse & Guy Martin use these (they make a very tempting switchable system for Roadsters )
https://demandengineering.co.uk/

To answer your question, this isn't about cost, the main reason for choosing Fusion Fabrications over going down the 'usual' Librands route is it gives me element creative control over the project, by working directly with the fabricator I can discuss my preferences for manifold design, silencer sizing, catalytic converter specification, volume and tone.

However, if we do look at the cost element then having a system built to your specification by a talented and trusted fabricator should deliver good savings too. While I'm sure Librands are an excellent Morgan parts specialist providing a valuable service to the Morgan community, what I’m pretty confident they're not is an exhaust fabricator, obviously someone else is making their systems so invariably that's another mouth to feed.

I took a look at the Librands website and buying the two basic elements for my Duratec Plus 4 stacks up like this:

1. Manifold including 400 cell sports cat = £1,440

2. Rear system including all pipe work, clamps, a hanger and the silencer = £450

So that's £1,890 plus the VAT which comes out at £2,268, plus the undefined postage which for bulky items like the above could easily be another £50.00, so let's assume £2318.

But of course it doesn't end there unless you're fitting the system yourself, ideally I'd want to do the job with the car on a ramp so if I'm honest with myself I'd probably end up having a local mechanic fit the system for me. I suspect we're looking at least three hours labour to remove and fit the entire setup from manifold to tailpipe, but being realistic I doubt I'd get much change out of a further £200 spend.

Of course fitting is all included in the price from Matt as he's custom building my system on the car, when I added it all up this and the 30% saving alone over the Librands option made it an easy decision for me. However, once I'd factored in the additional advantages of being able to discuss my preferences then choosing Fusion Fabrications came out as an absolute no brainer.

Matt has built a host of systems for Duratec engined kit cars, Caterhams and Fords so a Duratec Plus 4 Morgan is almost familiar ground for him, he also builds beautiful manifolds for Bugattis such as this one for a Type 51 so he has real empathy for the vintage club racer vibe I'm trying to create with Monty.



Bugatti produced roughly 40 Type 51s between 1931 and 1934 and if you want to buy one today you'll need between £6m and £10m to do so, if you're in that lucky position and you also need a new exhaust manifold….. you're definitely going to choose your fabricator carefully

HJS is the best brand for catalytic converters in Germany. Their ceramic catalytic converters are fitted as original equipment on most normal cars. Their metal catalytic converters are leading in racing. My suggestion for the 300 cell metal cat from Brain was only if you want to make sure everything runs smoothly at MOT. Brain from Milan is owned by HJS and has the same quality standards. All the best with your 200 cell cat from HJS.
It is also relevant that you already have a price for the HJS cat. You would have to import the Brain cat yourself and then there is all the hassle of customs, freight, import sales tax, etc.

Thanks Heinz, and Happy New Year to you

I concede I'm taking a risk in choosing a 200 cell cat, but I've tried to mitigate these risks by choosing a quality German made catalyst.

I have to confess to being a bit of a Germanophile, and especially when it comes to automotive products, domestic appliances and even now my E-Bike. I've already been quite vocal on these pages about my appreciation of Bilstein suspension and I make no excuses for that, don't get me wrong I want to support small British companies like AVO, Spax, Gaz and Protech but my experience is Bilstein simply produces a product that's lightyears better in performance and ultimately the value for money it delivers.

I very much consider myself as a patriot, afterall being British is hard wired into my identity which is perhaps why all my hobby cars have been from my native soil, a succession of MGs, Triumphs, TVRs, an Aston Martin and now a Morgan are all proof of that.

However, during the 1960s and 70s sadly the British motor industry very much rested on its laurels, and because the product quality and innovation just wasn't there those laurels weren't anywhere near solid enough to rest on. Before he moved to Audi and later to Toyoya/Lexus I remember my father's last British company car in the early 1970s, a Triumph 2500 PI saloon that was the best our motor industry had to offer at the time. Yes it had fuel injection which was very innovative, but in typical British Leyland cost cutting fashion instead of designing and manufacturing a dedicated high pressure fuel pump the injection system demanded, Triumph went to Lucas who pulled an old wiper motor off the shelf and adapted it, in doing so they baked early failure into every TR6 and 2500 PI that rolled off the production line

Meanwhile over in Germany Bosch had long since drawn on their early experience with Diesel injection having adapted it for spark ignition engines in the 1930's as used to great effect on the ME 109, that later gave birth to the mechanical direct injection system found on the Mercedes 300 SL. By the 1960's Bosch were already so far ahead of the game the embarrassingly poor fuel injection developments made by Lucas must have seemed like a joke to the German engineers, when electronic fuel injection came along Bosch knew they needed to design a dedicated high pressure fuel pump and heat management was going to be the challenge, so they came up with the brilliant self cooling flooded pump and the rest is history.

I can only imagine how the engineers at Bosch must have laughed when they saw that Lucas were using an old wiper motor for the same job , ultimately by setting the bar so incredibly low it was almost like us Brits intentionally opened to door to the Japanese and Germans to take and share our top global car maker crown, perhaps the plan was always to move our nation away from manufacturing replacing it with money lending and a well developed service industry

Anyway, I digress, it looks like more German parts will be fitted to Monty..... but only because they're the best!

Just to add to the conversation , I had a Lybrands Manifold and 200 cat fitted to my 4/4 , also had the Williams remap . It passed the first MOT had difficulty on the second MOT and as the pandemic came failed .
I took the car home and removed the manifold and cat and put the factory system back on ,result very easy pass . I complained to Lybrands as the cat had (track use only ) engraved on its side .
They were very good and on the condition that I returned the 200 cat they sent me a400 cat FOC . I have not put the manifold/cat back on and will stay with the factory system .
If anyone is interested in a 4/4 Sigma manifold with a new 400 cat send me a PM .

Thanks for your contribution Jimmy.

I note Librands now advertise their Plus 4 Duratec manifold as having a 400 cell cat rather than the 200 cell version you were originally supplied with, this seems in line with the free of charge solution you were given and also suggests you weren't the only customer to complain about having MoT emission test failures with their earlier 200 cell system.

By any chance do you know what brand of catalyst Librand's exhaust fabricator uses, perhaps as you've not put the manifold/cat back on you could take a look and share what you find engraved on your new 400 cell cat?

For the record if it's from HJS it'll clearly say so, and it'll also have the words "Made In Germany" laser engraved on the body.

Thanks again, Dave.