Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Off grid and power walls etc

Am I wrong in thinking that if battery power walls are charged by the grid that represents a net loss to the planet as all conversion of energy involves a loss?
That rather scuppers the ecology argument doesn't it?

No, you're not wrong, especially in environments with large amounts of fossil-derived generation. But as with all these things there's a degree of nuance involved. Using 'spare' overnight capacity to reduce the need for peak daytime power is not a bad idea overall, so to describe it as 'scuppering the ecology argument' is putting it a bit strongly, I reckon.

Surely it costs the environment the same, no matter what time it's generated?
And about the 50% efficiency in 20 years who cares I'll be dead thing....if my current system was working at 50% I (and maybe most of us) woukd find that unusable so would either have to use the grid more (which will have been the case all through as the efficiency decreases) or replace the batteries. Assuming replacement, hasn't that just handed a huge problem to the next but one generation.

Don't both the above scupper the eco argument and expose the true motives for all this...financial gain?

Mine are only charged via the PV panels. I would hope that within 10 years battery recycling has imporoved otherwise the EV is dead & my two 2.4kW batteries will be a pin prick vs car batteries.

I see Peter charging his batteries off peak no different to night storage heaters or folk who run appliance overnight on timers. They help load balance & reduce peaks in the day that would mean additional fossil fuel powered generation.

But it is different, the energy loss in the conversion. Charging batteries isn't an actual use in the way storage heaters are. That converted to battery energy has then to be used as energy. Two losses actually, the conversion to battery level and then the reconversion back to mains voltage.

Let me put it this way. For all the reasons for solar etc. Would anyone kit out their house in this way if it cost more and involved no paybacks and grants?

No but ditto night storage etc etc.
By the way the panels produce DC so if you have batteries at the same time you only convert it once to AC in the same way you do with PV energy directly.

Nick .... errmm yes! ... me 🙂

That's because I'm off-grid in the strictest sense .... no 'eco-power' ... no power at all

In the same way I think every driver should spend time on a motorbike before they get their car licence to sharpen their road-awareness .. I think everyone should spend a couple of years really off-grid (or with a smart-meter that simulates that and can't be bypassed) ... to learn the strengths and weaknesses of renewables and fully appreciate living within your energy means.

K

Nope. Consider the difference between nukes and gas for example.

A nuke has to run at more or less full bore all the time, whereas gas can be turned up and down at a moment's notice. One of the tradeoffs is therefore environmental impact vs flexibility.

Historically it has been well-nigh impossible to store electricity so we've been constrained to only using nukes to provide baseload. Now we have batteries we can decrease the amount we need to use gas by shifting night generation to use it in the day.



Batteries aren't exhausted in the same way that fuel is though, they just need to be recycled



It's certainly true that a lot of people are only prepared to shift to low-impact energy usage if it's of financial benefit to them, which is pretty depressing really, but I suppose it's better than refusing to do anything.

My system has also saved 18 tons of co2 in just over 4 years. I've no idea if that compensates for the co2 to build it but makes me feel good.

We might install batteries in the next year or so, to charge overnight on Economy 7. It would be nice if they could act as a backup if the mains fails - we get several power cuts every year. With batteries in place, it's then an easy process (hopefully!) to add solar panels to top them up.