Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Electric Cars

Not going to enter into a vegan/veggie/omnivore debate but as we're talking numbers it's worth noting that the CO2 figures for meat use a global average that includes very poor feedlot practices ... UK beef production methods, being pasture based, only emit a third of the global average per Kg ... so if you eat British beef then the saving for going Vegan would only be 5%

There's the likes of the tons of plastic Halloween/Xmas tat bought off the shelves to placate whining brats that will be in the bin on it's way to landfill the next day .... plenty of utterly useless excess that can be cut out first

K

Well stated Peter...

According to these stats global emissions for Livestock farming is 6.8%, and the passenger transport accounts for 7.1% (60% of the 11.9% from Road Transport). It would be far cheaper and easier for the entire population to go vegan, than to replace the millions of ICE cars with EV's (not withstanding all the emissions from manufacture).

Of course, I'm not advocating we all go vegan - each to their own, I can fully understand why people enjoy a succulent rare steak or a bacon sarnie as much as the next man - but if people are genuinely interested in saving the planet, then it makes sense to go vegan first before forking out tens of thousands on solar panels and EV's.

Exactly my thought Peter,
You prompted me to do a comparison.
When I was young (many years ago) the Ford Zephyr was considered to be a large car. Remember the MkIII aircraft carrier?
Zephyr
Length 4.65m
Width 1.75m
Height 1.44m
Curb weight 1,283 kg

VolvoXC90
Length 4.9m
Width 1.9m
Height 1.8m
Curb Weight 2,200kg

BMW X5
Length 4.95m
Width 2.0m
Height 1.75m
Curb Weight 2,100kg

While I agree, and can't fault your logic, there's one element missing from that sample school run: sleeping policemen.

Sadly, SUVs solve the problem of traffic calming measures - I'm sure there's a correlation between the growth of both.

Before SUVs, were these the drivers that regularly bent their alloys and trashed their exhausts because they hit sleeping policemen too hard? And now, in an SUV, they can proceed at the standard all purpose speed of 43 mph regardless of the road underneath them.
:-(

Phil ... was referring to your 15% figure in your original post .... doesn't change the fact the Global percentage skews the UK figures as our production methods result in about 1/3 of the global average .... the updated figure just means UK beef is responsible for 2.3% of our CO2 (probably less as our passenger car useage must be well above average when taken globally) ... you're absolutely correct that going vegan would reduce our CO2 ... but not by as much as the global derived figure would suggest ... but then so would living in tents to avoid concrete and using nothing made of steel.

My point was that the often-quoted figures don't reflect UK agricultural practice and as food is a basic requirement then there are glaringly non-essential areas that could be addressed first.

In spite of being an omnivore my diet is very light in meat, with a large majority of my weekly meals being meat free and the majority of the vegetables taken across the year being organically grown on site ... wholly in agreement that we should choose our lifestyles to minimise our impact ... of course not having kids is probably the biggest impact we can have going forward 🙂

K

It's too late to stop climate change progressing because there is no political will in most of the world.

Lets face it, this all kicked off with the Industrial Revolution, where suddenly, rich people could travel the world in steamships, plunder foreign lands, subjugate the local natives, and much worse. Once global travel became the fashion of the rich, emissions were only going one way. And that continues today, where travellers who hardly know their own country, ply the oceans in cruise ships, and jet around the world spending a few days here and there without regard for global consequences, while no doubt aspiring to having an EV.

Factor in wars, and how much greenhouse gas was/is produced by mechanised wars?

The world truly is a mad place.

And add in the use of jets to fly individuals all over the world to attend climate change conferences...
And add in that co2 emissions have risen rather than reduced worldwide...
And add in that when we buy our second car we have joined the pollution producing race as it's always better to repair what exists already than make new....
Etc. Etc. Etc.
You're right Dave. Once rich people get the taste for travel, that's it.
I can't tell you how many of my clients think it's a good idea to visit little, poor villages in far flung places, take photos of the children wearing nike plimsolls and coca coala t shirts, hang them on the wall of their lovely big energy consuming houses with built in swimming pools, and proclaim how cute the natives are..." So poor and yet so happy, always smiling". Next year they go to a naturally beautiful place and ruin it.
Then there's me, the biggest hypocrite of them all as I smile along with them, agree how much their trip has contributed to their life experience, all because they pay me so I haven't the moral b*lls to tell them what I really think.
It's a mad world alright and I'm a significant part of the madness (he says driving off in his "extra" car, an old Morgan that gives off awful pollution and is entirely unnecessary)

I think electric cars are a brilliant idea as a way to move the pollution away from the nostrils of pedestrians in town centres. But as a general way of saving the planet I can't see they make any difference...just a different set of polluting and rare resource materials to mine.
It seems to me that when people talk of saving the planet they are really talking about trying to keep the climate in a static, idealised state that theoretically existed just before we were born. In reality mankind has actually existed in a constantly changing environment and the changes have led to mass migrations, war and all the rest of it.
We have absolutely no chance of altering this constant change and for some reason we totally ignore the existence of unforeseen consequences.

I must go and have a lay down......

Amen to that (although I'd need to look for another job)