Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) 4/4 vs Plus 4

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I am seeking opinion on the Rover engined Plus 4 models. As background, I currently have a 2002 4/4 which is up for sale - lovely car, but not really my kind of thing. One of the main issues is that it does feel gutless - I am told this is normal, and I have learned that adopting a more spirited approach does get the best out of it. But at heart I am a lazy driver, and like to waft about on a wave of torque.

My 4/4 has not sold, so I am considering a possible part exchange. There is a Rover T16 Plus 4 that might suit, but what would it be like compared to the 4/4? Am I likely to notice a huge difference or is it just more of the same, but with a bit more power? Or would I be better off modifying the 4/4? (Not overly keen on modifying perfectly good cars, but if necessary?). The 4/4 is at least easy to own - does that apply to Plus 4 models?

There is also the Plus 8 I guess - I am sure that would tick the box, but I have always considered them a bit too much engine for the chassis so have been wary of committing. They also seem to be prone to overheating. Should I consider one?

What would you all advise? My current thought is to persevere with the sale and buy another pre-war car; my Daimler isn't fast, but has enough torque to pull from 5mph all the way to a heady 60 in 4th gear.

Really grateful for any opinions! I know I could just go and test drive, but I don't like wasting people's time if there is no realistic prospect of a sale, it just seems rude.

thanks

Mark

Don't forget the 3 litre and 3.7 litre V6 Roadsters as well Mark. You will certainly notice a big difference with the latter whilst getting better mpg than a Plus 8. Oh and you can pull away in second (MMC recommended) and reach over 60, with four more gears to go

With the librands manifold my t16 had great torque and was an easier drive that the zetec 4/4 j had but the Roadstef out classes that. We tour a lot so the bigger engine works well. I have 295bhp and the. Chassis copes so a +8 will be fine

I have a T16 +4 with Librands manifold and my dad has a S1 Roadster, the latter has far more torque and power, I don’t think there will be much difference between a 2002 4/4 and a T16 +4 maybe more torque.

If I was in your position I would look at a 2004/5 S1 Roadster as they are for some reason in the lower tax bracket so half the price to tax than a 2006 car..

The early Roadsters are nice cars.

Preliminary codicils:
1. This is written from the perspective of a trad Plus 8er with lots of Morgan experience. Plus 8s are better suited to North American LONG highways and their technology straddles two automobile cultures rather than one, so I started with and stayed with that model, though I have experience of all models and eras. .

2. Few can understand car specs any more. At most, they look at the bhp and then list the add-ons now used to replace driver skill.

Too often, pre-2004 4/4s get a cursory dismissal because of misunderstanding their performance side on paper. But bhp alone is unimportant, while power-to-weight is everything. For whatever reason, pre-2004 4/4 were always placed on a much lighter chassis than the Plus 4s, Plus 8s, Roadsters and all that came after. The later cars largely handle the same, albeit a little more heavily as time goes on. The noted 4/4s conveyed a more exciting ride and handling than their untouched contemporaries, and are very susceptible to power upgrades which are more potent because of their much lower weight. However, changes are not often done because of model designation stays the same. Dumb but true.

You might be interested to know that the development director of the day, Bill Beck, who designed the first Morgan V6 using the US Continental variant on a 4/4 chassis, shunned what he thought was the unnecessarily heavy Plus 8 chassis which nonetheless was adopted for all Morgans from 2004. That car, even with only 204 bhp, was a virtual bomb compared to the later outsourced design.

Ergo, by extrapolation, the trad Plus 4s are merely cheaper Plus 8s, same weight, lower bhp. They became a parts sourcing problem some time ago in their iteration after 1987 to 2000. I know where and what to source because of their close fuelling relationship with Plus 8s, but most owners/dealers get frustrated.

The trad Plus 8s are infinitely (the most of all Morgan models) upgradeable and robustly served by three supply markets (if one includes Australia). BTW, I ignore petrol prices as I have no wish to limit my hobby with this factor. After all, if I was looking to save money, I certainly wouldn't get into Morgans! The only move I have made about fueling (outside of its management)which is to make sure (a Mulberry Goldman designed fuel tank in ss) I have a range of more than 300 miles. There is a massive buffet of personalization possible. However, the fuel cost thing has lowered their residual prices.. We are all trained by current advertising..even in respect to our hobbies. Actually, you can save a decade or two of the extra cost of their petrol now in buying one instead of a Roadster.

The other advantage of a trad Plus 8 is in its acceleration over the Roadster. Trad Plus 8 are better geared and engined for the legal speed range we all must follow. Most of what they have is packed into 20-100mph.

The first two Roadster variants, with Mondeo and the Escape engines are excellent Morgans, with only a bit of sorting needed. However, they allow far less owner engine interaction and upgrades.t They are more suited to the newer Morgan demographic.

If you are not into upgrading your current car, (understandable) I would try one of each of the others. Remember, pre-1999 cars easier to electrically sort and source and pre-1996ish cars have a surer change of getting for the right wings (ex-Factory from their original supplier who is supplying again) , though even amateurs can repair steel wings and the original alloy wings rot at the edge in ways that cannot be properly repaired.

L.

I seem to recall that the Rover straight 4 engines are not guaranteed E10 compliant, but no problem of course if you can keep on getting E5 or find a suitable additive that will not upset the cat.

Also, don't they need a rather outdated code reader for engine ECU faults, as they were not OBD2 compliant ?

Thanks all, lots to think about. I suspect the Roadsters will be out of my price bracket, but maybe I should think again about a +8.

Astute comment.

However, most countries and/or jurisdictions use a doctrine called "acquired right" or how ever that translates in the many Civil Code places. Modern testing is normally done using the original emissions and safety features, not current ones. There are a few exceptions, so check it out.

Hotwires (1991 to 2000 in the UK) are pretty much OBD enabled. Frankly, though reader/ programmers can still be found, they can be equally be diagnosed with a 8 pound multimeter. (shrug) But if one wants more performance and/or better mileage, a new fuel map/eprom must be purchased.

Earlier EFI Plus 8/4s (1984 to 1990ish) use the Bosch L-Jetronic system, the most common EFI system of them all, and which allows for owner reprogramming, for greater mileage, emissions OR power, in minutes. Requires a flat head screwdriver and a C02 tester (Gunsen sells them or use your local garage's).
L.