Stumbled upon this comical YouTube from the eighties in NE Scotland, teenagers with more money than sense showing off powerful cars. I was the same age but not so daft. I suspect the big Vauxhall belonged to his parents 😂
Howard, looks like you brought a new word into the conversation.. EXOTIC..? (-:
As is my habit I like to just think in type to pass some time... (-:
As ever relativity might play a part here, as that which might be one man`s exotic, might be another mans hum drum..?
My guess it is whether the owner finds "IT" to be exotic that matters in the first instance, followed by how long he continues to think it`s exotic once it has been owned for a while.. ? I suspect if you get to the stage where you walk away from it without looking back, you might be loosing some degree of attraction, similarly if you feel some level of added excitement when you decide to choose to use "IT" for a journey as opposed to your daily, then the magic is perhaps still there... ? (-:
I guess if public reaction suggests "IT" might be treated as exotic in terms of some reaction being sensed almost every time it is driven, then that may well lessen the chance of the owner just taking it for granted in time...?
My perception is in general that the name Ferrari is more exotic than Porsche, but Porsches record in motor sport took it to a level of appreciation amongst sports car buyers and held it there for many years, as per the old adage, win on Sunday, sell on Monday..? Somewhat unfortunately it seems the marque for whatever reason became the icon related to the "loads a money" city traders and suchlike over time which became a growing negative aspect to ownership for me.. Pity, but then that is one of the reasons that brought me to Morgan ownership...(-:
Ferrari were ever an obvious sign of wealth at a time when the man in the street might not even know what a Porsche was, let alone how much it cost..? There was a time when could have had a 400i with an engine that was a wonder to behold, but everything else about the car was so not what the name Ferrari meant to me, other than... expensive parts..! The 400i was thought by me to be an ugly thing in the extreme. If a Ferrari does not have curves, and even with a V12 under the bonnet, it is just not exotic enough in my book on a potential cost benefit analysis... (-:
A big turn off for ME in times past was that that others might think that I thought I was superior as the result of whatever I might be behind the wheel of.....The "feeling" that was most important to ME, was entirely down to the sense of MY personal achievement in terms the vehicle I currently owned at any period of time.. Most of which may have been one time thought of special sports cars, that I brought back from the dead.. (-:
One of the reasons I gave up on Porsche in the 90`s, is along the lines of that which Simon typed of ,relative to his trip as a passenger in a Ferrari. It seemed that driving a Guards Red 911 brought out the Neanderthal in just too many folk to the extent that a degree of the pleasure of ownership was diluted to the point I decided to look for a different sports car, in time deciding on a Morgan, though which Morgan....? (-:
As for prioritising horsepower or torque, I have to say I liked the idea of perhaps finding an old a 4/4 in need of care and attention, with the possibility of fitting a Lotus Twink in it, was very tempting for the roads I enjoy the most, yup, just the right gear for every corner was ever likely to provide quite the best feedback for me for each and every corner on a trip, not that I managed that every time....(-: A four pot was just that which I was more used to, and at the time a Twink seemed a bit more special than the lump out of some old Rover derivate in a +8... But the advice was that the +8 was probably my best bet, and when Kevin decided to sell his nut and bolt rebuild +8, it did not take much convincing that Kevin`s Mog would be the one for me..(-: Touring was never part of my Morganeering plans but when Mrs Luddite suggested to sample touring in the new Mog, I was comforted by the thought of that old Rover lump rumbling along entirely unstressed for hour after hour, as opposed to a tuned up Twink revving it`s nuts off would more than justify the decision to go with the +8 as the Mog to own and enjoy.. .. (-:
My old Mog still fits all the reasons behind my original purchase of it to some degree, it`s just that I am twenty years older, stiffer and feeling the cold far more than I did back then... pity.
When it came to choosing a tin top to extend my sports car enjoyment in cooler weather and perhaps with a little less effort required to steer and stop it... I suspect a 964 or 993 might have been a good fit as they had leaped forward from my 911SC in terms of adding servo brake, power steering, redesigned suspension systems in an attempt to reduce the tail happy 911 experience for the then new customer base in the 90`s all that and increased interior comforts too, but at the time of my search a couple of years back, both 964 and 993 were now circa 30 year old cars, no doubt with old car problems that I had been sorting out 30 years ago myself, and had no intention of getting back in amongst myself today..FAR les so paying Porsche prices to others to resolve for me..!!!
Oh well, if I wished to own one last Porsche, it seemed the choice would ideally be one that could be insured against the "issues" that seemed possible in water cooled 911 derivative Porsches for far too long, and when what seemed like a possible candidate appeared at a dealership in just the right colour, trim, engine and drive spec, Also that Mrs Luddite approved.. I dived right in.
Insurance, by way of Porsche extended warranty, for cars up to circa 15 years old and perhaps 150k miles, would hopefully cover any potentially really expensive engine issues that might occur. The car has been great and Mrs Luddite REALLY enjoyed driving it, which helped justify it`s initial purchase to a considerable degree.. (-: I did experience a reported potential engine cooling issue, which was fortunately covered by the extended warranty I had bought into...No big deal just down to a change over valve operation being sensed as non-op and flagged up on the dash. No water temp oil pressure or engine temp issues showed up while driving.
Yeah the 991.1 has pushed way ahead of the air cooled and is capable of providing even more of an insular driving experience that either the 964 or 993, but I suspect far more suits the old man I have become...? (-:
For sure while others and even owners might see the machine as a symbol of status, I suspect for 99.9% of the time it is all about the machine and whatever I have been able to put into owning and driving it.. (-:
As for the other .1%, there was never a better calling card than that experienced when touring with the old Mog, it almost guaranteed acceptance anywhere on the Southern European adventures that Mrs Luddite was so skilled at organising... (-:
Enjoy whatever you can and while you can seems to be a reasonable way to go, be that in the automotive sense or otherwise..?
George, you’ve hit the nail on the head “Enjoy whatever you can and while you can seems to be a reasonable way to go, be that in the automotive sense or otherwise..?”
Time is the only truly valuable currency we have to spend, you can’t earn more, you don’t know your balance yet it reduces with every passing moment.
So true Ewan .... was my Birthday yesterday (big numbers these days!) so your observations as to the sand running out of our collective hour-glasses has cheered me right up !! 😁
Talk Morgan said " With a practical hat on, a Ferrari will generally cost more to run, maintain and insure than a comparable contemporary; however, the argument is that it will also more than likely hold a much higher residual value.". As I have said before it doesnt seem to cost any more for the V8s than a similar Audi or Merc. My insurance is £250, tyres are cheaper than many modern cars. The residual comment is dodgy - Ferrari values go up and down like other collectables. Two pals with 328 models have seen their cars go from the £20k purchase price ( second hand - new in the 80s they were about £80k) up again to £80k and currently dropping like a stone. Yes you can defy depreciation with the "special " models as you can with a GT3 Porker but not the ordinary cars.
Howard, do you not find that parts are more expensive than a modern equivalent vehicle costing a similar price? Or is the Ferrari tax a myth? General maintenance and servicing may be reasonable but I have been told horror stories about cost when major work is required. This includes a recent conversation with someone with a Mondial QV that cost half the value of the car (£20k on a £40k vehicle) just to do some, what would have been relatively minor work, on a current production car.
As for deprecation, my point was that comparing a modern car to a near classic must take into account how much new cars lose in the first part of the life-cycle. As we are all aware, most new cars will lose 50%+ of the initial purchase price in the first 2-3 years of ownership (ignoring the strangeness of the immediate years post-pandemic where many used cars were inflated). With a car such as the 360, values may fluctuate but are unlikely to be worth half of what you paid over a few year period (nor gain that value).
Cant give you a straight answer on parts prices - my experience has been pretty limited because both cars have been reliable. I had an accident at speed with a cat and that bent one of the air inlet wire mesh screens on the 430 - I remember that being expensive. But then other parts like coil packs and basic engine comnents have been standard items used on other FIAT cars and so surprisingly cheap. God knows what the price of a titanium con rod would be.
The build quality these days is such that the cars come new with a 4 year guarantee ( renewable up to 15 years) and 7 years of free servicing.
Howard, looks like you brought a new word into the conversation.. EXOTIC..? (-:
My guess it is whether the owner finds "IT" to be exotic that matters in the first instance, followed by how long he continues to think it`s exotic once it has been owned for a while.. ? I suspect if you get to the stage where you walk away from it without looking back, you might be loosing some degree of attraction, similarly if you feel some level of added excitement when you decide to choose to use "IT" for a journey as opposed to your daily, then the magic is perhaps still there... ? (-:
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Being a logical and down to earth type, I find what you say with both car and boat. I really enjoy driving the Ferrari - sensible level of power, open top, manual gearbox, really comfortable seats and little electronics. When its in the garage, I wonder why I have the car and what sense it makes. Same with the boat though I admit to much more of a romantic attachment to the sea and to boats that I do to driving anything in the UK. And I always look back at the boat when I walk away from the pontoon. Back home I again wonder why.
Talking to the sales person it was supplied in 2002 to a local customer and has been serviced by Bournemouth Porsche Centre ever since. It is beautiful and if I had space I'd buy it. It will be sold with a 12 month dealer warranty as it is too old for a Porsche warranty.
£36,000 for a true future classic...
Peter, 66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...
Peter, perhaps best to research the possibilities of engine failures on early 996 & 997 up to 997.2 before splashing the cash, as there may be some degree of gambling involved than one might initially imagine..? On the other hand a 996 or early 997 could work out wonderfully well, there are those who have owned them over many years and swear by them... The write up at the time of the launch of the 996 proclaimed it to be superior to the 993 which it replaced, though today try buying a 993 for the advertised price of the 996 you posted details of..?
Howard, good to read your interesting response, also good to note that someone might find some interest in aspects of my rambling... (-:
I think I can tune into your preference for boat over car, as I have a friend who has a similar preference, all be it he likes his cars too..(-:
I was also very fond of my Moody. I guess once you have sailed through a bit of weather knowing full well that your survival is/was entirely dependant on your vessel and your handling of it, as you watch that first green wall of water rising above the bow and marching forward over the fore-hatch, heart in mouth as the water wall heads along the deck towards you.... until the bow finally brakes free and out of that first big wave.... Confidence restored in the old girl`s ability to keep you safe, definitely creates a rather strong bond. That experience was not taken from some book or magazine, it is one I will ever remember, and was experienced on the return from my first trip out to the Western Isles in the seventies, while homeward bound rounding the Mull of Kintyre, which is perhaps not the best stretch of water in which to face a bit of a blow..?
Mrs Luddite greatly enjoyed our fair weather sailing for a number of years and could take the rough with the smooth, though when I bought the Mog, she decided enough of Summer holidays when she returned home bruised from being thrown about the cabin etc, thus she thought to arrange a trip to France in the Morgan which had potential to be reasonably adventurous, and with the prospect of warmer holiday weather, perhaps even a sun tan thrown in too boot..!
Yeah well, prior to buying into the idea of Morgan ownership I had researched both on the MSCC DG and eMog all relative to Morgan "foibles," some even on on new out of the box cars ...thus the idea of depending on a rebuilt Morgan to carry us all the way to and around France, seemed to carry a degree of risk almost the equal of rounding the Mull...though perhaps not quite.. (-: Kevin, the former owner and restorer of my +8 obviously did a grand job of the nut and bolt rebuild, as the old Mog got us to France and back with next to no foibles making themselves evident, thus just a bit like the boat, I suspect a degree of bonding took place betwixt man and machine, in that the Mog took us to France and back home again safe and sound.
Such was the degree of confidence in the Morgan after the trip to France, that I was confident enough to force a smile when Mrs Luddite suggested that she might be a little more adventurous in planning our next year`s holiday trip, to Los Romanes in Andalusia..!!! The old Mog once again took in it`s stride... (-:
My guess is that dependant on ones involvement with that which others may regard as some kind of symbol of status, the owner, who for a number of reasons might have engaged in some degree of bonding with the boat, car or whatever might cause others some degree of envy... I guess that is THEIR problem..?
It would seem that I perhaps a bit like you Howard, I on occasion struggle to justify to MYSELF, the ownership of that which spends much of it`s time hidden away in my garage, perhaps providing some degree of pleasure as garage art, more than required transport..?
The C4S was the last car Mrs Luddite drove not long before she passed away, and that she really driving it, taking delight in telling me just how well it suited her small frame compared to other cars I had owned and she had driven over the years. So once again I suspect I sense a degree of bonding with that machine also..
Owning a sports car can be expensive and in a few short miles... If Ferrari is of interest, you might learn a bit if you care to beam up this chap as he has experience of the marque.
I can semi regularly flip and flop between thinking of trying to sell either or both, followed by justifying my thinking on keeping a couple of what for me are valued by way of a sense of achievement in ownership in my garage that may have a market value far in excess of the price I paid for this property in the 70`s...! I guess as ever, some degree of relativity may be best applied.... The potential threat hanging over one`s head for the possible costs involved in future health care, or old folks home fees...!!!
Talking to the sales person it was supplied in 2002 to a local customer and has been serviced by Bournemouth Porsche Centre ever since. It is beautiful and if I had space I'd buy it. It will be sold with a 12 month dealer warranty as it is too old for a Porsche warranty.
£36,000 for a true future classic...
That's a lovely car. However as Luddite has mentioned, that generation of Porsche do have a couple of inherent problems that can result in terminal engine failure.
Proven modifications are available and if I were to buy a 996 I'd certainly have them carried out.
