Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Front suspension upgrade

Both the '54 and the '61 +4s have retained the damper blades in their normal position with the SSL bearing above. No shimmy or St Malvern's dance at any speed.

The Roadster has some shimmy, but the damper blades removed some time in its history. You can see the small bolt holes in the chassis and marks where the blade guides were. I think, but cannot be certain that they were removed when it had a Rutherford kit fitted, but don't this as gospel.

Tony

I think the ssl helps the earlier cars more . On later cars the set up is better and adjustable.

That should cause a long thread

Here's the thing.....how many Morgans has anyone driven to even get close to knowing?

I've driven the three I've owned, and two others. That's not enough to even have an opinion.

I've never driven a Morgan with SSL or a five link rear and without knowing how that feels I won't part with the cash. I do know that the Rutherford system makes a significant improvement to the front end, from personal experience by doing that job twice.

But I also know that losing a damper, front or rear makes no significant difference toi the feel.

In my limited experience most people tend to notice a big improvement whether using SSL or Rutherford compared to their old usually tired setup, because for many the existing setup is tired and not operating optimally and hence often the reason why looking at alternate solutions.

So its often like comparing apples and pears..............often .comparing tired setup with new setup, and hence the improvements noticed even if going with the original setup rebuilt. They may notice considerable improvements just rebuilding their existing setup if its at the end of its life. I've always added brake reaction bars at the same time as a rebuild, so its often difficult to attribute what improvement is due to what components. The SSL setup is useful because you can raise the front by nearly an inch, very useful on low slung Roadsters. I have heard good reports on the Rutherford setup, he rebuilt my front setup on my Kent 4/4 just before going on a continental tour in the early 1990's and the change was very noticeable.

I fitted ssl to front of my 97 +4. The car was transformed but it also had new shocks all round and king pins so apples and pears.

I well remember a time on eMog when as was his habbit, Bill Button was into carrying out tests and modifications and removed the shockers entirely, and determined that in general he felt little to no difference..

For sure as we age a little more comfort and bling can add to the enjoyment of our Morgan`s though how far to go before a Trad might be classified as a "RESTOMOD"....?

P.S. my mid 80`s Mog is not "original" with the aftermarket rear hoop and Koni adjustable tubular shockers front and back....in my defence they were fitted by Kevin the chap who rebuilt what was t be my Morgan. Being in search of a pseudo vintage driving experience when I bought my Mog, had it leaver arms fitted when I bought it, I would just have left them in place...

Thank you all for your useful comments. With this information I'll have to make a decision. I'll let you know what is that. Regards

WFWIW, I have to say that whatever set-up you have will work well if correctly fitted, all tolerance's are correct and it's clean and regularly serviced! When I first got my low milage plus 4 I gave it a thorough inspection prior to parting with the hard earned! and could see that it was suffering with what most are, that is, lack of use, old tyres and shoddy levels of service! This could be easily sorted and quite frankly you'll never drive another car that will show you just how much it appreciates that sort of care.
Dave W is spot on with his opinion of the Rutherford conversion but if a budget is a problem and you have the older style front suspension with the damper blades, removing them and fitting the bearings under the springs is a remarkable change. If you want to keep it as factory then the addition of PTFE washers at the damper blade help massively too! My plus 4 also had 60 profile tyres (standard fit) and when I changed all 5 I fitted the 65 profile which yes, does look better in the wheel arch but more it gives that greater level of softness in the suspension and a little more ground clearance too! Ironically the speedo is actually spot on now rather than overreading and for my style of driving i haven't noticed any difference in the handling although if I were to wear the tyres greatly it might under read by about 2-3 MPH however I have never achieved that as yet in a Morgan!
Lastly! All that faff about shocks! well here's a story for you! Originally they didn't have any fitted and it's rumored that Peter Morgan only had them fitted to pacify the punters as he stated that they just weren't needed! What does a shock do? It damps the spring bounce and gives an initial support to protect the spring with sudden harsh compression forces. Have you ever felt the resistance a Morgan specked damper gives ...... not much at all I can tell you! On the rear, yes, I would fit them as that's a different set up altogether and there you want to damp rebound and support the spring from sudden shock loading. but the front, well that has rebound springs and that's what they are for. Don't believe me, well I took mine off and drove it for a thousand miles as I really wanted to know just exactly what those limp wristed shocks were adding to the party and actually I couldn't tell the difference! I do run the car with shocks on the front though for insurance purposes and MOT but mine have the original SSL supplied option which are non adjustable otherwise its the standard factory set-up. There is one other thing that I would consider and that is a progressive main spring option as this does give a softer ride over the general road surfaces yet still has a stiff enough set up for the times you want to throw the car around a bit! If you race your car, well that's a whole different story but if you like the excitement of throwing it around the 'B' roads then its good enough so save you're dosh and spend it on a panhard rod instead! That'll give you that planted feeling on the twisty bits!

CORRECT!! Morgan trad front ends are deeply prejudiced by insufficient maintenance or an inaccurate choice of damper travel placement. We are only talking of 1.25" of travel (though that can be increased): Actually, Peter Morgan confided that he only added dampers to please his fretting market. Just one codicil. Over the years since its design, the MMC rebound spring grew in length because of an ignorance of its use, until they became an unhelpful factor in front, producing unwanted stiffness at the stub axle which Peter Ballard understood immediately. However, I began cutting my rebounds in the mid-1990s on the advice of JHS2. Bill Beck, the Works Service and then Development Director, told me over a bottle of wine, that the Works removed the rebounds for Hill Climb competition. It was a costless experiment, that became my a standard on all my mogs.

Years ago, on eMog, I advised Bill Button to remove his rebounds entirely, just to show him that he was over-fretting about bush materiel, rebounds, spring rates. He was shocked to find that his front end improved and his old mog became more neutral at the steering wheel, which is the primary task of the Morgan FRONT suspension. The front also, though not intended, preloads the rear suspension through the flexing chassis. That is where comfort happens (or does not ). No harm done to Button. He merely moved on to fret about another area of his Morgans. He and I would talk regularly until his fatal sports car accident two weeks shy of his 90th birthday. I miss him. he had the enthusiasm and drive of a teenager.

Sadly, Suplex will not sell their rebounds only or, at least, not to me. That being said, the rebounds are not supposed to be in play except in extremis. I cut them merely until they don't rattle around, barely touching the underside of my stub axles. One day I will replace them with common sense squishable neoprene ones. But it hard to get around to areas that works so well.

The only conclusion to come to is that each trad responds to [b]individualized[/b] tweaking..like DaveW and I do. It is due to the flexing chassis. Very rarely can you find two trad chassis the same, either when installed at the Factory or after it has seen road time. So though we can learn from each other and trad to trad, there is no one-size fits all. The original set up, functioning precisely as it was originally meant to, is quite wonderful. What I do like about the aftermarket add-ons, is that they force long-needed proper maintenance as a consequence of their installation, to finally be done and that benefit continues even after the lot is removed. This is at the core of the justified claims of joy after the work is done and the money spent. I applaud that. Focusing on products rather than tweaks is a less happy path. 99% of us are vulnerable to the immutable Law of expenditure.



Button was rare as he would have none of that. Us boys and our toys!

gmg

Your reaction is justified. It is the standard reaction of anyone has long overdue maintenance done on a trad. Most often that requires a resale to someone with fresh and untrained sensations. Bravo.

BTW, I am not aware that David (R) had afront set-up, per se, though he certainly knows how to fully service a Morgan trad front end! Interestingly, he did secure the rights to a set up designed for Morgans by the legendary Alan Staniforth. It was tried out by Peter Mulberry. I tried it. Quite remarkable. Like a perfect stock Morgan front end except less maintenance needed. I have images somewhere if anyone is interested.

Rutherford's talents focused, for reasons I have given, at the rear..where his kit became and still is very popular. Sadly, it has been copied by predators. I do not recommend anyone buy one of those. I did 30 years.and mine sheared. These brackets should not be made of pot metal! David preferred his other front treatments kits. Better suspension travel and stronger.

BTW, you learn very quickly. My compliments.

gmg