Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Starting problems 1971 4/4 Competition

I have a1971 4/4 Competition. Once running she’s very reliable and runs sweetly. Bags of power, very smooth pick up, a delight to drive. Motor is unmodified – a Kent crossflow with Weber carb and Lucas dizzy.
After the car has been standing for a few weeks it takes a lot of cranking till she fires up by which time the battery is beginning to weaken. Once started, it restarts easily.
Two years ago we fitted a new mechanical fuel pump and had the distributor rebuilt. Prior to this, despite the poor condition of the distributor, the car started on the second or third crank even after standing for the winter.
The pump seems to be delivering with adequate pressure, no leaks, and timing seems to be spot on. Plugs are clean and have only run a couple of thousand max. Prior to these problems the car started on the second or third crank even after standing for the winter.
I’m at a loss as to what to try next. Could I bypass the mechanical pump with an electric and see if that makes any difference? But as I’ve said the pump is new and seems to deliver. The advance retard on the distributor was also completely shot and was replaced during the rebuild.
I’d very much appreciate any suggestions.

Many thanks!

As a long shot.... May just be down to a shortage of fuel in the carb float bowl having evaporated over the time spent standing, that is where an electric pump can help if prior to cranking one listens for the ticking of the pump to stop which informs one that the carb float bowl has been replenished.. Old style mechanical fuel pumps had a lever which could be used to manually pump the fuel prior to cranking in order to achieve the same ends... I guess a modern way round a similar problem could be a short squirt of easy start to initially fire things up...? Though be careful spraying that stuff around as it seems engines may get somewhat hooked on it... or you can set fire to things...!!!

Also modern fuels are quite a bit different and can perhaps loose some degree of their combustibility if left for long periods of time..?

Just thinking in type. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes along in time..
Good luck in finding a solution to your issue x 2.. (-:

Non return valve in the fuel pump line may help, as mech pumps often drain backwards when stood idle

It may be that the cam lobe that triggers the mechanical fuel pump is worn. Would work fine when the engines running at normal revs. but not enough 'oomph' to prime the carbs at start up.

I had the same issue, so switched to an electric fuel pump mounted near the tank, and a malpassi filter king under the bonnet to make sure the correct pressure is being delivered. Now I turn the pump on, give it a few seconds to prime, couple of pumps of the accelerator and she starts fine. Facet fuel pumps click all the time though, so don't wait for it to stop ticking!

Have repurposed a dash switch to provide power to the pump (and an added security feature) and fitting an inertia switch just under the dash on the right hand side so I can reset it on the move if necessary.

I have similar problem on my 1978 4/4 Crossflow, and the previous owner did as well. I have put it down to fuel draining back into the tank, takes quite a few longish cranks, but it fires every time eventually. You know its about to go when you actually smell the fuel. I have a non-return valve on order, will report back with how it goes.

Many thanks to Luddite, CooperMan, TBM and Druid9.
Will have a closer look at the carb and get some fresh fuel. Already have a non return valve. A new battery won’t go amiss, the one I have was in the car when I bought it 12 years ago but has none the less never let he down. After that then an electric pump. Like the dash switch security. Old school friend had a jack socket on the dash of his mini interrupting the ignition.
Thanks again and will post progress.
For your info the car is the green 4/4 mentioned in ‘auster’ Le Mans Classic blog.

TBM, Pretty sure my electric fuel pump is of the Facet type and seems to perform much as the old SU type in terms of the audable clicks in that if there is little or no fuel in the float bowl, the pump ticks rapidly until the floats close the needle valve in both carbs, after which the tick slows right down to a sort of slow and steady heartbeat until the engine is cranked and fires up..

Just thinking in type...and passing some time... (-:

mfg, being a modified car I guess there could be mods to the fuelling system incorporated from other Morgan models. With electric fuel pumps there have been a variety of safety features to inhibit the fuel continuing to be pumped out an open pipe after an accident if for any reason the ign is left switched on.... In my mid 80`s +8 there is an oil pressure switch in circuit and if the oil pressure drops the fuel pump is cut off. Thus imagine after a lengthy lay up, the battery is perhaps not at it`s best, the float bowl(s) are low or empty, and the fuel pump will not come on until the engine has been spun over to generate enough oil pressure to close the switch and liven up the pump all the time the engine requiring to be cranked until the pump has run long enough to fill the float bowls.... With luck the battery has enough to accomplish all that and generate a decent spark at the plugs, in order to get things going..???

It will be interesting to find out the cause of your particular problem..

Good luck.

Possibly, but my experience with Facets on my Landrover, MG (posiflow)and Morgan (silver top) is that they click all time. The tone changes when the carbs are primed, but they still click away. You can get isolator mountings for them to lessen the noise (just ordered one for my MG) but once the engine is running the noise is less noticeable.

mfg still has a mechanical pump, so there will be no isolator switches to worry about.

It's interesting that a new pump has recently been installed - a new one had been fitted to mine. I wonder if the new stock is manufactured slightly out of tolerance so that they're not pumping quick enough at starting revs (but OK at higher revs).

TBM there are just so many knock off`s in parts for everything out there, it can be hard to sort out the real from the fake... even in aircraft parts..!!!

mfg, have you tried changing the Ballast Resistor? Mine was constantly failing on my '69 4/4 so I bypassed it eventually. It's off a Ford Transit........