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Joined: Jan 2023
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Just to update, I can't find my old note book and can't remember who gave me that suggested torque setting. I have looked through the workshop manuals I have and no torque settings are stated and that's as I remember it. Arwyn is probably your best bet here to give the most definitive answer whatever that might be, I would definitely go with his advise if you want a good opinion as he knows Morgan's inside out! I'm sure he'd be happy if you PM him.

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Potts Offline OP
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Hi everyone,

Another question: I have received the bars from Librands and they are slotted on the kingpin fitting end and do not have any strengthening rings/washers. Based on everything I have read, the fitting hole strengthened versions seem to be the recommendation.

Are the ones I have received any good? The slots may help with positioning and allow more adjustment to avoid tyre rubbing, but I have some concerns with the unreinforced slots?

Any advice? Has anyone successfully fitted and had a good experience with the Librands type?

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Should have gone to Wolf Performance.


Keith
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Williams fitted mine



[Linked Image]


Craig Jezz


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Originally Posted by Potts
Hi everyone,

Another question: I have received the bars from Librands and they are slotted on the kingpin fitting end and do not have any strengthening rings/washers. Based on everything I have read, the fitting hole strengthened versions seem to be the recommendation.

Are the ones I have received any good? The slots may help with positioning and allow more adjustment to avoid tyre rubbing, but I have some concerns with the unreinforced slots?

Any advice? Has anyone successfully fitted and had a good experience with the Librands type?

The MMC ones have plain flattened ends as well. That's not to say the collared ones aren't better engineered although both types seem to work equally well.

I think the slotted end is for chassis fitting. This allows some give in the case of an accident so avoiding chassis damage.


Richard

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Well I'd send them back! Mulfab are the people who designed them and yes you'll pay top dollar but they'll be right and the service is great. I have seen quite a few variants on a theme and the lengths seem to very as well, some are not even drilled! This can cause rubbing issues if the length is incorrect! The slotted version might be to build in a safety factor as a weak point in case of accident damage to the chassis, ie. a predictable failure point but rather I think as for ease of fitting ..... not having to remove the oiler bolt.
Back to failure points though! some years ago the chassis connection bolts were made from a soft mild steel for the purpose of failing under such circumstances but I notice now that they are being supplied with high tensile steel bolts. I have been experimenting with brass 1/4" fastenings at the chassis end in order to reinstate this failure point to protect the chassis. Installed now over a year ago they are working well although I don't feel I have covered enough miles yet to fully asses their functionality. But in saying that it is my intension to change them out as a service item on an annual basis.

Again "P" look up my posts on BRB fitting and I have fully explained how to do the job! So to round things up! buy from either Mulfab, Wolf performance or Williams if you want the correct item. It's the top of the crosshead you are stabilizing and you want it to fit properly at it's point of origin namely the top of the fixed pin! It works in both planes in that it's a tie rod and a brace so carries load forces in both directions!

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Originally Posted by sewin
Well I'd send them back! Mulfab are the people who designed them and yes you'll pay top dollar but they'll be right and the service is great. I have seen quite a few variants on a theme and the lengths seem to very as well, some are not even drilled! This can cause rubbing issues if the length is incorrect! The slotted version might be to build in a safety factor as a weak point in case of accident damage to the chassis, ie. a predictable failure point but rather I think as for ease of fitting ..... not having to remove the oiler bolt.
Back to failure points though! some years ago the chassis connection bolts were made from a soft mild steel for the purpose of failing under such circumstances but I notice now that they are being supplied with high tensile steel bolts. I have been experimenting with brass 1/4" fastenings at the chassis end in order to reinstate this failure point to protect the chassis. Installed now over a year ago they are working well although I don't feel I have covered enough miles yet to fully asses their functionality. But in saying that it is my intension to change them out as a service item on an annual basis.

Again "P" look up my posts on BRB fitting and I have fully explained how to do the job! So to round things up! buy from either Mulfab, Wolf performance or Williams if you want the correct item. It's the top of the crosshead you are stabilizing and you want it to fit properly at it's point of origin namely the top of the fixed pin! It works in both planes in that it's a tie rod and a brace so carries load forces in both directions!
I think the slotted ones are a closed slot not an open one, to give some jiggle room when fitting.
In the case of suppliers, if you care to visit “companies house” records, you will find a very close association between Williams Automobiles and Librands!
(As Michael Cain said…not a lot of people know that!)


Doug
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Forgive my response, but trad safety captures my attention. The brake reaction bars, a great add-on, unwittingly, has characteristics can prejudice this. frown

Their front ends are one huge safety feature, one that happily survived the leap to Aeros. In an impact, one wants one's car, any car, to absorb deadly impact
forces before they reach the occupant cabin or cause other deadly damage. This is how Formula I cars are now designed and why that sport's
fatalities of the old days have, for the most part, disappeared. (fingers crossed)

Morgans, trads and Aeros, absorb severe frontal impacts by pleating at their bulkhead. Neither measure was planned per se, but by accident, (PUN!) it has saved the
lives of many moggers. Since my accident, I keep a photo record of such things. Sadly, the CX cars did not inherit this feature and their front impacts seem to be much more
more unfortunate.


On the other hand, the trad front end dynamics are such that steadying it during hard braking is a wise move, both for general mogging or to preserve the cross frame.
https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/CrossframeBrakingEffect.jpg Some moggers, hammer their used kingpins down the crossframe tubes to prevent crossframe bending
and to enhance steadiness under hard braking, but I dislike that trick. It inhibits the pleating impact-absorbing feature and it adds a lot of weight to the front end for a car
that otherwise has an ideal 50-50 balance back to front
.

The trad steering unsteadiness on braking can be cured by brake reaction bars, that anyone with a metal drill bit and a metal strap they can bend can fabricate in their
kitchen when their SWBO is not looking. But I too switched to the shiny ss (or chromed) versions. Prettier. But they are not different in effect than something kitchen-made.
The one exception might be a Bourne/Wells (in their Librand days) a treatment that is no longer sold. Frankly, IMHO, it was way overbuilt but certainly looked the
business. http://www.gomog.com/TEMP/Wells~BourneBrakeReactionBars.jpg

They must be fit with lower fittings that are guaranteed to shear on impact If they don't shear, the frontal impact will be transferred to the occupants even MORE
LIKELY than the kingpins banged down the crossframe tubes do. The pictures posted here seem to show heft fittings that will not shear.

Slotting them is downright silly. Defeats their purpose and exposes a basic misunderstanding how this item should work. Many things at today's Mulfab has LITTLE to
do with Peter Mulberry era there. This slotting measure is as silly as the MMC decision to slot the Wing Stays to save production time that has caused so much distress since.
https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/wingstays.html These attachment points should never be allowed to be slotted no matter how much installation time that saves.

P.S. Brake reaction bars were an invention of the Morgan community. They've been around forever. eMog merely popularized them

Originally Posted by Potts
Firstly, I apologize if any of these questions are stupid or have already been asked and answered a thousand times before.

Though I have read a thousand sad answers, in 30 years, I have never read a single "stupid Morgan question" or one that cannot need refreshing. This stuff is too important
for even one mogger to be in the slightest doubt. And if YOU are in the slightest doubt, there are invariably hordes in the same state.

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Originally Posted by gomog
Forgive my response, but trad safety captures my attention. The brake reaction bars, a great add-on, unwittingly, has characteristics can prejudice this. frown

Their front ends are one huge safety feature, one that happily survived the leap to Aeros. In an impact, one wants one's car, any car, to absorb deadly impact
forces before they reach the occupant cabin or cause other deadly damage. This is how Formula I cars are now designed and why that sport's
fatalities of the old days have, for the most part, disappeared. (fingers crossed)

Morgans, trads and Aeros, absorb severe frontal impacts by pleating at their bulkhead. Neither measure was planned per se, but by accident, (PUN!) it has saved the
lives of many moggers. Since my accident, I keep a photo record of such things. Sadly, the CX cars did not inherit this feature and their front impacts seem to be much more
more unfortunate.


On the other hand, the trad front end dynamics are such that steadying it during hard braking is a wise move, both for general mogging or to preserve the cross frame.
https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/CrossframeBrakingEffect.jpg Some moggers, hammer their used kingpins down the crossframe tubes to prevent crossframe bending
and to enhance steadiness under hard braking, but I dislike that trick. It inhibits the pleating impact-absorbing feature and it adds a lot of weight to the front end for a car
that otherwise has an ideal 50-50 balance back to front
.

The trad steering unsteadiness on braking can be cured by brake reaction bars, that anyone with a metal drill bit and a metal strap they can bend can fabricate in their
kitchen when their SWBO is not looking. But I too switched to the shiny ss (or chromed) versions. Prettier. But they are not different in effect than something kitchen-made.
The one exception might be a Bourne/Wells (in their Librand days) a treatment that is no longer sold. Frankly, IMHO, it was way overbuilt but certainly looked the
business. http://www.gomog.com/TEMP/Wells~BourneBrakeReactionBars.jpg

They must be fit with lower fittings that are guaranteed to shear on impact If they don't shear, the frontal impact will be transferred to the occupants even MORE
LIKELY than the kingpins banged down the crossframe tubes do. The pictures posted here seem to show heft fittings that will not shear.

Slotting them is downright silly. Defeats their purpose and exposes a basic misunderstanding how this item should work. Many things at today's Mulfab has LITTLE to
do with Peter Mulberry era there. This slotting measure is as silly as the MMC decision to slot the Wing Stays to save production time that has caused so much distress since.
https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/wingstays.html These attachment points should never be allowed to be slotted no matter how much installation time that saves.

P.S. Brake reaction bars were an invention of the Morgan community. They've been around forever. eMog merely popularized them

Originally Posted by Potts
Firstly, I apologize if any of these questions are stupid or have already been asked and answered a thousand times before.

Though I have read a thousand sad answers, in 30 years, I have never read a single "stupid Morgan question" or one that cannot need refreshing. This stuff is too important
for even one mogger to be in the slightest doubt. And if YOU are in the slightest doubt, there are invariably hordes in the same state.


So what’s the message ?


Craig Jezz


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That they need to be sturdy enough to stop the flex but not so tough as to bend the chassis in a bump??

K

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