Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) 185/70 for a 2014 4/4

I have now driven three sets of T-Trac 2 on my 2014 4/4. I have always been more than satisfied. Now I'm tempted to drive 185/70 for once. My 4/4 has increased engine power and I suspect that in the dry the braking effect before corners could be better with 185/70. In the wet I think the 165/80 would be better. Now I have read here in the forum over a few years that the 185/70 sometimes drag, depending on how a 4/4 turns out in individual cases, especially at the front, but also with the rear tires. Someone said, I think DaveW, that the factory expensive Avon 185/70 are a bit narrower than the 185/70 from other manufacturers. Is that the case? Could I get into trouble? What is your recommendation for 185/70 other than Vredestein Classic and Avons? Or would you think, the Vredestein Classics are a good choice? Regarding the 165/80 the T-trac 2 seems to perform better than the Vredestein Classics.

Heinz, I've been really happy with my Continental Eco Contact 6 in 185/65 R15 88H TL's, these tyres were recommended to me by my long term tyre supplier who explained they have a very soft sidewall for a modern tyre. Keep in mind tyres these days are designed for much heavier cars, 185 section tyres for instance are typically found on small hatchbacks, but a small hatchback weighs 1,200 - 1,300kg these days.

The soft sidewall of the Continental Eco Contact 6 is a function of the fuel economy design brief, but don't let that put you off, by happy accident it also means these tyres are perfect for a very light car like a Morgan. This is why my tyre supplier recommended them and he was right, I'm sure I don't need to tell you as you've had many of the species but Morgan suspension is very basic and the ride quality extremely crude, but the one thing that will make a big improvement is the tyres.

In terms of power and handling, Monty makes 173 horsepower and 160 lbs/ft of torque and has no issues with grip, obviously the road is not the place to test tyres to their limit so I properly put them through their paces at Curborough Sprint Course a couple of weeks ago and I'm pleased to report the Continental Eco Contact 6's have fantastic grip. Break away on the limit is super progressive and predictable and correcting Monty was child's play, I run 26 psi rear and 28psi front on the road which works well, for the track I just put the rears up to 30 psi and like this Monty's handling was extremely neutral.

Regarding the classic tyres available from Vredestein and others, I would say while the rubber compound may be way better than it was in the day if you choose a classic tyre then there's no getting away from the fact you're walking away from over 50 years of tyre tread development. I refuse to believe these old tread pattern classic tyres will shift water as well as a modern tread pattern, and in a world full of other road users with way more powerful brakes and ABS you need all the help you can get to stop in the wet in your Morgan or for sure you're going into the back of that modern Mercedes that just slammed on its ABS anchors in front of you.

I can however accept the argument that 'Classic' tyres have a sidewall that's more suitable for lighter classic cars, but this becomes irrelevant if you fit a modern eco tyre like the soft sidewall Continental Eco Contact 6. Cost was another reason I turned my back on ‘Classic’ tyres, they’ve become crazy expensive, I also concluded a 70 profile was going to throw my speedo out so with the ancient tread pattern issue in my mind too I simply went with the better, safer and far cheaper modern tyre.

Here's Monty sat on his Continental Eco Contact 6 in 185/65 R15 88H TL's, I hope you agree they look the part too?

Montegue, thank you for your detailed answer. I have ordered T Trac 2 again this evening, but perhaps I can still reorder. Visually your tyre choice still looks ok or even good. The 4/4 would be lower on the road, but the 4/4 is not as critical as a Roadster, for example. A very good side effect would be that I would have a slightly shorter rear axle ratio, not very much but still. The TÜV (MOT) should actually accept the change. Your description of the soft sidewall of the tire is a very good point. Still controlled driving but also comfortable on such a light car. I will report back if I can reorder. Seems to be worth a try.
At least 3,8% shorter which is more than a third in comparison to a 4.1 diff vs my 3.7.

https://www.reifenrechner.at/index....15&2rb=185&2rh=65&2durchm=15

One thing must not be forgotten. The standard tyres of the Trad Plus 4 were 195/60/15, so your Plus 4 with 185/65/15 is a touch higher but looks better in my view. Visually, your 185/65/15 fills the tyre housing more fully and nicely than the standard Plus 4 tires. On my 4/4 it's slightly different, the standard 165/80/15 is larger in diameter than the 185/65/15 but as I said it should look ok using 185/65/15. I hope the bell housing will not come too low. We are talking 1.2cm lower when installing 185/65/15. BTW I never understood why MMC didn't choose 195/65/15 for the Plus 4. Another BTW, on your photos I can see that your Plus 4 is hanging a bit backwards. If you are using lowering blocks I would think about removing them or use thinner ones to get the view straight. You have more suspension travel and a straighter line. In addition, the rear axle is "in" the spring and not "above" the spring. This eliminates or reduce the negative leverage effect on the spring in the event of lateral forces when cornering. Even if ghe rear comes a bit higher the ride feels more controlled. At least this is my experience.
In case you would make the lowering blocks thinner or remove them completely (depending on how thick they are at the moment) half of the sandwich rubber has to be removed over the axle to still allow the car to swing out properly.

Has anyone tried these?:

https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/185-70vr15

Expensive but money back if not satisfied guarantee.

I wonder if that enormous suit case and camping equipment on the luggage rack is responsible in some way?

Its just because Monty was on his way back from Le Mans when those photos were taken, the big WW1 leather trunk was full of camping gear and the rear parcel shelf was fully loaded too, it was a lot of weight and not representative of normal service.

Here we can see Monty being set up at Tecniques Morgan, the first image is just with the driver and the second with a passenger, as you can see another person barely makes any difference at all.


Its only when the car was massively loaded on the way back from Le Mans that it sat a little lower at the rear, but even then the difference was small, unlike the dreadful originals adopted by Morgan the BCC anti-tramp rear springs we used were clearly properly tempered by Owen Springs as there's been no settlement or sag since they were fitted.

I do feel Monty sits well and looks right.





But most importanly he's proven himself to handle brilliantly on both road and track

You nailed it Doug and responded before I could

Heinz. You must be very careful when you fit 185/70's on 4/4 wires. Avons CR6zz's JUST fit, but only clear the upper spring mounting by a couple of mm. I wanted Blockleys but they were a couple of mm wider, so did not clear. If you want any other brand it's essential to test fit at the front, if that can be arranged. The "backspacing" (inset) from the MWS site is this............

4/4............. 83mm
Plus 4........ 79.5mm
Plus 8........ 75mm

Plus or minus 3mm. So what this means is that if you have wires with the +3mm backspacing they may foul. It also means that some 4/4 wheels will clear but others will not.

Dave, thanks for the information. Is the problem also present if I choose 186/65/15 tires? Because that was my plan. In other words, is it basically a possible problem due to the width of the tires, or would I have no problems with the smaller diameter of a 185/65/15 tire vs. a 185/70/15? Also because of the upper spring mounting?

Montegue, you're absolutely right! Everything looks perfect without a suitcase. I simply hadn't seen it in the first photos.

The bottom line Heinz is that you will only know with a test fit.

/65 profile will lower the point of maximum width of the tyre, but suspension movement could still create a contact point with the top spring mount.