Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Trad prices

Julian, I wish this was new.

Something that I found out very quickly, even as far back as circa 20-years ago, was that (and limited to my experience with three (perhaps four) main Morgan dealers), was that they were happy to sell you a new car but when it came time to trade that car in for another new Morgan, there was no appetite to buy the Morgan they had sold you back. Instead, they wanted to sell your car SOR and sell you into the next new one.

Having not purchased a new Morgan from an approved dealer in quite a few years, I don't know how they handle this now; however, as the factory seem to be creating model years changes, perhaps in hopes of tempting owners to swap their Morgan for a new version, I do wonder if there is now more of an appetite from dealers to take Morgans as part-ex? From what I have heard from a few newer owners, it would seem not but others may have had a different experience.

The Morgan market is tiny in the scheme of things.

Morgan dealers historically have been pretty small 'mom and pop' outfits and because of a fairly small used market, could probably afford to be very picky when it came to buying used cars for stock.

There would be no point in them buying cars that perhaps wouldn't be an easy sell because they couldn't afford to tie funds up long term, plus they probably didn't have the funds available or the space to display them.
With the cost to the dealers of buying new cars for stock I'd bet the appetite to buy outright used stock is non existent at the moment............
SOR has always been a low risk option for dealers, not just Morgan dealers.

As a serial Morgan buyer.....🤯.... I've dealt with dealers from yorkshire to the far end of cornwall and everywhere in between.

Oh I understand the market and I wouldn't expect a "mom and pop outfit" to buy back a Morgan. Also, I'd suggest that the market for Morgans was far more bouyant one to two decades ago, so if it was a good car, good colour scheme, etc, does it instil the customer with confidence if an approved dealer won't take the car they sold in trade-in against another new car? This is a rhetorical question but I personally feel that it could be a reason why it is more challenging to retain customers. I also wonder if MMC have ever spent the time to analyse how many first time owners they retain. It takes roughly five to seven times the cost to attract a new customer to a brand than it does to retain an existing one. From my side, and I have voiced this directly to MMC, over the years, I feel that the customer experience could be improved and would aid not only ownership of the product but retention of the customer (win win). I didn't comment on Aerotaff's steering issue thread but again, PDI / QC is all part and parcel of this topic.

Julian, while SOR might be a better option for the trader, I have heard of one Morgan owner who had some degree of complexity in receiving the funds from the sale, and in the end did not receive the full amount, and took another car from the trader to make up the approximate value expected...
Also there is a rather long running story in the Porsche world of an English trader who got up to all sorts of tricks with cars both in for repair and SOR...The numbers and antics were staggering...

So it would seem to have some sort of insurance on your vehicle that might cover any situation when in the hands of a trader, as it seems one Porsche owner seems to have had...

Might be best to be careful out there in a falling market where traders may be struggling..?

I have no problem at all with falling prices for classic cars and Morgans. I don't want to sell anyway.
A few decades ago, vintage cars and vintage motorcycles enthusiasts were weirdos and outsiders.
Often craftsmen with little money.
If we can get back there, I'd be happy to.
There will be a change of ownership at some low price, at the latest when the previous owner can no longer drive and his children are not interested.
Perhaps this will lead to a rejuvenation of the Morgan scene.
The wealthy will then drive CX, the younger craftsman Trad.
Let's see if that happens.

I'd bet that MMC haven't taken time to analyze anything in the past....😁

I think you're right, the Market was certainly more buoyant in the past, the dealers were in charge.... not so now..........

I'd say that MMC been in a unique position for the last century or so.
Arrogantly perhaps, they've never really needed to listen to anything that customers said because they've sold everything they've made and had a waiting list (in the past...!)

For a decade or so in the early years of the last century they were relevant, cutting edge and modern...... from then on, and for decades, they just carried on building the same old, outdated, totally obsolete car......BUT..... the buyers loved it and it kept on selling...!!!🤯🤯

When other British motor manufacturers modernised, updated and kept up with trends, Morgan simply didn't bother........ and we know what happened to the rest of the British motor industry........!

So, by total chance, Morgan came up with a unique produce and developed a loyal customer base....🤷🏻‍♂️

But............now they want to compete with the big boys........ and it's a totally different market.....!!!!

The modern customers demand more.....better.....newer.... they want improvements, luxury, convenience, features, technology, build quality........etc etc etc....... All this makes the produce much more expensive and the buyer more fickle.

🇬🇧🇬🇧

George, this is a very valid point. I'm also aware of the story, with regards to Porsches, that you mention and it, as well as a few others, are cautionary tales.

Whilst there are many in the car world who do SOR in an above board and professional manner, there are some who use it to 'bend' laws that are in place to protect the consumer and minimise risk to themselves but ensure maximum profit.

I've had a first hand experience (not involving a traditional Morgan sports car) where the dealer took my car on SOR and once he had found a buyer, rather than being involved in the deal, wanted to have the buyer pay me directly, less the amount of commission, which the buyer would pay to the dealer directly. So he wanted to change SOR, where the buyer had protection by buying from a dealer and seller (me) was protected by his insurance, to one where he was simply making an 'informal' introduction.

Your other point reference insurance is another interesting element. If a car is with a dealer on SOR, technically you would assume that the dealers insurance covers the car, including test drives, for either damage or a total loss; however, this isn't always the case and it is worth reading the small print on anything you are asked to sign. Furthermore, if you are not asked to sign anything... perhaps that is even more troubling.

I think there are several issues in play at the moment being reflected in the wider classic car market beyond the current recessional influences. Firstly, we can see the writing on the wall for the ICE, whilst we may wish it to be decades away, so not in our lifetime. That's just not going to happen that way, once new ICE sales stop, the market for ICE will shrink very quickly, prices will fall dramatically, ICE no go areas will grow exponentially and the cost of fuel, spares availability, etc will start to see the cars off the road either due to cost or unavailability. Simple things like changing the ethanol content of fuel to say 80%, ,lower quality petrol with much lower RON ,stricter environmental emissions control, reduce petrol imports so limited availability and higher prices coupled with limited distribution network as economies of scale diminish as petrol sales volume falls. Lots of different way of seeing the ICE off the roads.


Secondly, upcoming generations will have been indoctrinated on the Green agenda, ICE's will begin to be seen as antisocial and irresponsible behaviour and the market demand for them will fall

Thirdly, the increasing taxation of eg pension pots and other assets, a major source of cash release for many on retirement to finance the likes of a Morgan upon retirement. There will be increasingly less cash in the system, and assets such as classic cars, watches etc may well start to be come taxable either on acquisition or disposal or included in a an wealth tax.

Finally, The EV market and range of available cars and much increased battery range, coupled with more sophisticated and more widely available recharging network will present some real and cost effective choices to the ICE, There are some fantastic performance and open toped EV's on the way, at such low price points that will just blow the ICE away.

Whilst I enjoy driving my Morgan, the one element that is always there at the back of my mind is will it be reliable and complete the journey and get me home ok. Experience has taught me that valuable lesson, I only ever have a home recovery package when I drive a Morgan. Of course, other cars I've owned have from time to time been unreliable, but I've never needed a recovery service. And then when it comes to the bout of Morgan failure, the next question is who can fix it and what is the availability of the spare, how long will I have to wait. I don't skimp on maintenance of my Morgan, I use it all year round to reduce the unreliability that comes from extended period of inactivity and so on. I've never been interested in the mechanical maintenance of a car, and there is a growing body of people who don't want to get their hands dirty or more importantly don't know how to get their hands dirty with mechanical things, which is often a prerequisite with Morgan ownership.

When it comes to my perception of the trad Morgan brand, I after 5 Morgans associate poor quality and increasing unreliability especially as they have had to adopt more cleaner technology in their engines and more sophisticated wiring components eg PCBs into their cars. Their ride quality has become harsher and ground clearance lower and more compromised compared to the 70's and 80's Morgans I have owned. The CX is another animal all together and a step change compared to the trad, but increasingly with the passage of time and as the miles rack up on CX's the poor engineering and questionable quality starts to shine through again. It may have improved but its nowhere near where it should be for the price point of the car.

Re SOR..I think one needs to be sure of the dealer. I have sold, and recommended to owners, at least 3 mogs via SOR over the years with BHM and I have no hesitation in stating that they have been entirely honourable each time. More than that, they have gone to considerable trouble to be helpful. Especially as they are too far away from me for me to have used them as a supplier or for servicing etc.Thoroughly recommended.
I have no connection with them except as a happy customer.
Nick

Always make sure in a SOR agreement or any sale transaction come to that, you include a Romalpa clause ie retention of title ,in that title to the car does not pass from you to the buyer until you have received cleared funds in your nominated bank account or by what ever payment method you choose.