Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Edd China exposes EV issues

The week link that can cause an EV to catch fire or cause a heafty garage bill is revealed here. I hope I am not scaremongering when I talk of my main fear which is the thought of a fire on a sea going ferry. There should be a means of isolating the battery more effectively.
A contactor that is a vital EV component has the potential to become fused shut under conditions of extreme current or heat.

Had a remote controlled high current battery isolator fail on my narrowboats 12 volt 9 hp bow thruster installation. The isolators M8 battery cable studs had got so hot they compromised the material that held them captive and caused an open circuit in this case. This despite battery cable fixings remaining tight and isolators 1000 amp starter current rating.

I remember being a bit miffed at the time as had deliberately over engineered the boats electrical installation as a whole, but this just served to highlight the weakest link. Changed isolator for next size up with M10 studs, 2500 amp momentary rating and 600 amp continuous. In fairness I did blow the thrusters 600 amp fuse once when its prop was temporarily fouled.

Basically I suspect you can start an electrical fire with a set of fairy lights as it neither takes high voltage or high current to generate enough heat to create that which might end up as a conflagration...?

Whether one is of the type who wishes to pick a side in the EV or NOT argument is for anyone to choose, and as with all types of technological changes in direction for whatever reason, there will be variations in acceptance or otherwise, and the likes of Mr China, like so many others in media, I suspect dropping in a bit of controversy, might assist maintaining momentum in his income stream...?

I had a degree of engagement for almost 40 years with high current lead acid battery propelled vehicles, operated at times by people who had no regard whatsoever relative to basic electrical principals, be that in just operating the vehicle, or in connecting or disconnecting it from chargers, and despite that, I have no recollection of a fire... Obviously the design of those vehicles was key in that the real world expectations of their use and abuse over many years operating in all weathers, were taken into consideration..

I feel fortunate to have been exposed to that degree of EV education over quite some time, while during all those years not ever considering an EV as my personal transportation device, given my decades of engagement and enjoyment of ICE machinery of many types..

I have been no stranger to over heating electrical connections over the years and seen quite a wide variety of them caused by quite a few different variations, not just fairy lights but through to a few high current high voltage, high frequency and high dependency kit, with quite a few variations causing them.

Keeping costs down and perhaps engaging in a bit of risk management, be that in design, manufacture, installation, maintenance or operation... any one of which can create issues in the long term with less than ideal outcomes...

So far my Tesla has proven to be 100% reliable, though aspects of it`s unnecessary complexity relative to functionality that as basic transportation device does it does not require, would seem to have potential to present inconvenience in the long term by way of possible decrease in it`s reliability or costs to repair, however on the other hand general maintenance costs during my circa two and a half years of ownership have been zero..

While I suspect Mr Musk has his personality issues, I think he may have created a reasonably robust EV, which I bought into based on his clean sheet design ideals when it came down to creating and EV, as opposed to modifying an existing vehicle to become an EV.... So far so good... Fingers crossed.. (-:

Any data to show this a common fault? Probably a higher % of M3Ws have had cracking fuel tanks/mounts than EVs an internal battery fault like this!
Plus AFAIK the Nissan Leaf battery install was very "Gen 1" with no cooling i.e. likely to be less reliable than other EVs...

How many more in the media might care to add raise their profile by taking a position in the EV debate...?

I suspect if a fire might be initiated by one or more cells overheating, then an isolating contactor or main isolation switch seems likely to be of little use as either would be up stream of the source of the excessive heat build up which once it starts to burn it seems nothing is likely to halt that process...?

I bought into the EV idea almost three years ago, but not hook line and sinker, and to date I still think it works rather well for ME as a basic transportation device.... Each to their own..

I am not so certain that in the issue Ed highlights will be quite so critical in the future, he is also a bit late to the table. Good whole systems design is critical as Richard highlights. The issue is more to do with the Li-Ion runaway state which a bad event can trigger. Once a Li-Ion catches fire and becomes a runaway event then it is a critical moment . A petrol tank could also explode on an ICE car although that is a lesser risk and result? A long time ago I was shown how the Norwegians dealt with it (on land) with a container full of water and a lifting arm. Admittedly not as practical for a boat but an illustration that it has been addressed?

Solid State Batteries along with all of the development people like CATL and BYD are doing will change the issue for the longer term. CATL's announcement last month resolves it with a significant power boost and cost reduction. The company Mercedes bought a while back doing SSB work also addresses it.
This chap is a good source of current battery and car industry stuff, he displays a bias but is generally very informative.

On a side note.

I am not certain that F-Elon Musk did invent the Tesla. He did have a very direct hand in the Cybertruck. How did that go. Last I heard there was a kickstarter running to cut them up and make knife sets out of them. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/061915/story-behind-teslas-success.asp

He was an early investor in Tesla and drove the two founders and primary inventors out of the business, apparently.
His money came from Paypal which he was involved in from early days. Again, not the ideas man.

I do not intend to infer he is not smart but there is this "god like" thing going around about him and I sometimes think that it maybe be the reflection of others in his image? Or I am just jealous of not having a couple of hundred billion USD. His (many) children will be very interesting to watch in the future. The MARS thing is way out there. Bit more than mushrooms involved here I suspect. Still that would make them a good protein for the long haul to MARS, probably not powered by batteries.

Contrast that with Jeff (Amazon) Bezos divorced wife who walked away with $39 Billion. So far she has performed random acts of kindness to the value of 50% of it already and shows no signs of stopping. https://www.philanthropy.com/package/the-ripple-effects-of-mackenzie-scotts-philanthropy
I think I am more impressed that there was not a lawyer involved in the carve up and it happened without becoming a mess.

Thank god there is still some good in this changing world.

(some of this content was generated using AI, Artirifical Ignorunce, me) ChatGPT was not harmed in the making of this post.

Exactly. The EV landscape is evolving so fast that many of the so-called showstopper concerns (range, cost, battery life, charging infrastructure etc) have very quickly shown to be largely groundless.

L-Ion battery fires are certainly potentially very damaging and difficult to extinguish, but we're already seeing that they are vastly less likely than ICE fires to occur in the first place and I'm sure that EV manufacturers are not going to be sitting on their hands doing nothing about engineering the risks out as much as they can.

A while back BC ( before Covid) I watched a video ( you tube or someone's channel elsewhere on tv) where a US professor was developing solid state batteries. He did a demo of making one with his solid state " electrolyte" sandwiched between foil layers. A 3 layer structure, quite thin.He built a simple circuit running a bulb with crocodile clips and bulb holder. He then started cutting the " battery" up using scissors. No bad effects. He cut it down to a very small size and the bulb stayed lit. It looked quite good.
Having seen videos of people filming deliberately damaging Li batteries and the resultant uncontrollable reaction this development looked the way to go.
If I can find it I'll post a link.

And just a few years later: Mercedes recently drove an EQS fitted with a solid state battery from Stuttgart to Malmo (748 miles) and still had 85 miles of range left when they arrived.

But why did they have to make it look like the awkward love child of marvin the paranoid android and a whale? Put that platform under a Pagoda SL look-a-like and ride the wave of love it would generate. How else are you going to combat the instant iterative capabilities of BYD ? It makes me quite sad.